While 79% of Americans think trans-women (men) should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports, all 51 Senate Democrats disagree and voted unanimously to kill a bill to that effect.
Dworkin does not (did not) speak for all women anymore than Trump or Biden speak for all Americans. And whoever said women should have the same opportunities as men? The idea of feminists was that women should have equality of opportunities. To say something is of equal worth does not mean it's the SAME.
You speak of feminism in a way similar to folks who brand as us-- we who question trans ideology -- as harboring bigotry and hate. You select particular quotes of particular women as if that particular person's philosophy is the Holy Grail, and that's not fair to people who believe in women's rights.
As for child bearing, some women began to be able to see that bearing children might actually be a CHOICE, not a demand. I don't think it's productive to debate reproductive rights on this website, but I do feel that most women-- and men -- DO want to be able to choose whether or not to have a child. And that having this choice is NOT what has led to transgender ideology.
I'm too old and weary to keep debating this kind of thing but stand by what I said before: that blaming persons who believe in women's rights for transgender ideology's harms is off the mark.
I'm wondering if, in the spirit of uniting around a common cause, we might end this back and forth by giving our attention to what I think are our points of agreement: (1) that men and women are not the same; and (2)that transgender ideology is harmful.
The pics and labels are misleading. Feminism is the belief that women and men are equals; i.e., equally worthy human beings. This emerged from a long history of women being considered as lesser beings (and its attendant discrimination). Feminists believe that women should have opportunities of equal worth. It isn't true that feminists believe that women don't need men, nor is it true that women believe we ARE men. That women want equal rights isn't to blame for trans ideology.
Radical feminists (Dworkin, Firestone) in the 1970s said that one's sex shouldn't matter anymore and that "gender" had to be abolished, along with traditional hetero institutions like marriage, child bearing and raising, etc., in order for women to be "liberated". A straight line can be drawn from radical feminism's arguably misogynistic ideas and desires to today's trans ideology with its similar declarations about how embodied sex doesn't matter and that gender is performative and optional. ("Man" or Woman" means nothing, so anyone can be one! Or the other! Or both!) Radfems were the ones pushing the idea that women were lesser for being female and for behaving in a feminine fashion. They called women slaves and masochists for having anything to do with natural reproduction and men (and the incredibly stupid notion that all hetero sex was rape in one way or another and that anything men did for women was oppressive and nefarious) so they certainly did push the idea that women don't need men. https://karagamel.substack.com/p/feminist-quotes-about-gender Feminism has gotten it painfully wrong since the 2nd wave. Women cannot be "equal" to men or get the "same opportunities" that they get. Not in everything. They can't because men and women are not the same. Now 4th wave liberal feminism has abandoned females altogether to fight for "social justice for marginalized groups" (based on intersectional "identity" and against the "patriarchy") that might not include women at all. According to them, the most oppressed minority group is black trans women....
💯 And as much as I tried to call myself a feminist back then, they lost me when they said all hetero sex was rape. I thought that was insane even then. Now, we have lots of new insane stuff — like the notion of a trans-kid.
so while we dont want men in female toilets/spaces/sports and this is supposed to be a landmark ruling..what about the inverts? Those transed from birth and occupy almost every position of power that one can think of, in any institution. To be MTF or FTM...transing from birth is to present as a person who looks exactly like the sex they're supposed to be transed to...An MTF will look exactly like a woman, unless of course you've done forensics and study the skeleton. The skeleton never lies and one can spot them a mile away. As a genuine female i'm sure i've been in many a public toilet with lots of inverts...MTFs...transed from birth. Just look at all the celebrities and models closely....we surrounded. So how do we keep inverts out of our spaces.....
What on earth are you talking about? There is no such thing as “transed at birth”.
Are you talking about the vanishing small number of people who are born intersex? They are not transed at birth, they are raised at whatever sex their external organs point to, and might later discover they have other internal organs / unusual chromosomes.
I think they couldn’t separate it from identity politics. And when Bernie was challenging Hillary identity politics was a large part of how the DNC took him down. It was also a distraction from them abandoning economic or class issues, Bernie’s primary focus. And once embraced, how could they walk their support back of all things trans? Walking it back would involve some level of responsibility for the harm that has been done to children and vulnerable young adults. They are stuck with it.
Bernie Sanders is a misogynist old self-promoting salesman.
He got into politics by taking money from the NRA to defeat good Democratic women.
He only pushed healthcare when it served his self-interest--when Hillary introduced a plan for universal healthcare in the 1990s, he claimed on video that it would "bankrupt the country."
He didn't know how to implement the policies he promised--when asked, he mumbled, "I assume there are people to do that."
And even as he was yelling about the rich paying higher taxes, he was paying the 15% rich-people's tax, while Hillary was voluntarily paying 36%.
It was linked with gay/lesbian/bisexual rights, and thus became a civil rights issue. Those who believe that "trans rights" are being threatened are genuinely concerned about the well-being of trans and nonbinary individuals, and they have good intentions. They're not bad people, but they're misinformed and misled, much like MAGA voters.
This is one of those questions that if failed to answer correctly in a modern world would immediately disqualify such a person from obtaining any position in life with any measurable authority or influence over anything. Men and Women are equal in value and worth but wildly different in personality and sexual dimorphic which are unchangeable. Such differences should be protected and celebrated even a SCOTUS should understand basic premises and differences of men and women, but here we are.
Democrats will be seeing the inside of the Oval Office sooner than you think, because Trump ignores not just common sense, the rights of women, and what the people want, but the Constitution and democracy itself. His second term will not end well, and voters will take their chances with the Democrats because there won't be a better option.
The Democrats are embracing being the party of the 20 to 30% and that is not going to get them into the Oval Office. Trump is doing exactly what he campaigned on doing.
Last I saw, Democrats had 45 seats in the US Senate, Independents had 2, and Republicans had 53. So where does the 51 Democrats number come from that you reference in the first paragraph?
Or is this article referring to a vote in one of the state legislatures? Very unclear!
the politicization of anything, especially science, is bad news. GOP politicians are bowing to trump's will in a similar fashion, altho in their case they risk death threats if they cross him. Dem politicians only face disagreement and controversy. not sure why they are ignoring the survey results...
Right JFK as he was personally flawed, believed in the Catholic Church and its Catechism. God created a man and a woman and they are recognised at birth by sight.
(Minor comment, trans identified women are allowed in women's sports, as long as they aren't taking steroids, I think? Basically, it's a sex based distinction -- no one is asking for their gender, that's their personal subjective information....)
Dworkin does not (did not) speak for all women anymore than Trump or Biden speak for all Americans. And whoever said women should have the same opportunities as men? The idea of feminists was that women should have equality of opportunities. To say something is of equal worth does not mean it's the SAME.
You speak of feminism in a way similar to folks who brand as us-- we who question trans ideology -- as harboring bigotry and hate. You select particular quotes of particular women as if that particular person's philosophy is the Holy Grail, and that's not fair to people who believe in women's rights.
As for child bearing, some women began to be able to see that bearing children might actually be a CHOICE, not a demand. I don't think it's productive to debate reproductive rights on this website, but I do feel that most women-- and men -- DO want to be able to choose whether or not to have a child. And that having this choice is NOT what has led to transgender ideology.
I'm too old and weary to keep debating this kind of thing but stand by what I said before: that blaming persons who believe in women's rights for transgender ideology's harms is off the mark.
I'm wondering if, in the spirit of uniting around a common cause, we might end this back and forth by giving our attention to what I think are our points of agreement: (1) that men and women are not the same; and (2)that transgender ideology is harmful.
The pics and labels are misleading. Feminism is the belief that women and men are equals; i.e., equally worthy human beings. This emerged from a long history of women being considered as lesser beings (and its attendant discrimination). Feminists believe that women should have opportunities of equal worth. It isn't true that feminists believe that women don't need men, nor is it true that women believe we ARE men. That women want equal rights isn't to blame for trans ideology.
Fourth wave feminism is right now *taking back* the word feminism from the misogynist hypocrites who call themselves "third-wave feminists."
4thwavenow.com
Radical feminists (Dworkin, Firestone) in the 1970s said that one's sex shouldn't matter anymore and that "gender" had to be abolished, along with traditional hetero institutions like marriage, child bearing and raising, etc., in order for women to be "liberated". A straight line can be drawn from radical feminism's arguably misogynistic ideas and desires to today's trans ideology with its similar declarations about how embodied sex doesn't matter and that gender is performative and optional. ("Man" or Woman" means nothing, so anyone can be one! Or the other! Or both!) Radfems were the ones pushing the idea that women were lesser for being female and for behaving in a feminine fashion. They called women slaves and masochists for having anything to do with natural reproduction and men (and the incredibly stupid notion that all hetero sex was rape in one way or another and that anything men did for women was oppressive and nefarious) so they certainly did push the idea that women don't need men. https://karagamel.substack.com/p/feminist-quotes-about-gender Feminism has gotten it painfully wrong since the 2nd wave. Women cannot be "equal" to men or get the "same opportunities" that they get. Not in everything. They can't because men and women are not the same. Now 4th wave liberal feminism has abandoned females altogether to fight for "social justice for marginalized groups" (based on intersectional "identity" and against the "patriarchy") that might not include women at all. According to them, the most oppressed minority group is black trans women....
💯 And as much as I tried to call myself a feminist back then, they lost me when they said all hetero sex was rape. I thought that was insane even then. Now, we have lots of new insane stuff — like the notion of a trans-kid.
Great historical description.
At yet, somehow these democrats remain in office no matter what their constituents think 🤔
We can say the same about Republicans.
so while we dont want men in female toilets/spaces/sports and this is supposed to be a landmark ruling..what about the inverts? Those transed from birth and occupy almost every position of power that one can think of, in any institution. To be MTF or FTM...transing from birth is to present as a person who looks exactly like the sex they're supposed to be transed to...An MTF will look exactly like a woman, unless of course you've done forensics and study the skeleton. The skeleton never lies and one can spot them a mile away. As a genuine female i'm sure i've been in many a public toilet with lots of inverts...MTFs...transed from birth. Just look at all the celebrities and models closely....we surrounded. So how do we keep inverts out of our spaces.....
Um. Your grasp of science is a bit odd. You don't have to do forensics or study the skeleton to do a cheek swab. DNA never lies.
What on earth are you talking about? There is no such thing as “transed at birth”.
Are you talking about the vanishing small number of people who are born intersex? They are not transed at birth, they are raised at whatever sex their external organs point to, and might later discover they have other internal organs / unusual chromosomes.
I look for where the ridiculous insanity comes from. How did tranny insanity become the number 1 issue for democrats? Is it money?
It's money.
Read Jennifer Bilek at the11thhourblog.com
I think they couldn’t separate it from identity politics. And when Bernie was challenging Hillary identity politics was a large part of how the DNC took him down. It was also a distraction from them abandoning economic or class issues, Bernie’s primary focus. And once embraced, how could they walk their support back of all things trans? Walking it back would involve some level of responsibility for the harm that has been done to children and vulnerable young adults. They are stuck with it.
Bernie Sanders is a misogynist old self-promoting salesman.
He got into politics by taking money from the NRA to defeat good Democratic women.
He only pushed healthcare when it served his self-interest--when Hillary introduced a plan for universal healthcare in the 1990s, he claimed on video that it would "bankrupt the country."
He didn't know how to implement the policies he promised--when asked, he mumbled, "I assume there are people to do that."
And even as he was yelling about the rich paying higher taxes, he was paying the 15% rich-people's tax, while Hillary was voluntarily paying 36%.
He was always a massive hypocrite.
It was linked with gay/lesbian/bisexual rights, and thus became a civil rights issue. Those who believe that "trans rights" are being threatened are genuinely concerned about the well-being of trans and nonbinary individuals, and they have good intentions. They're not bad people, but they're misinformed and misled, much like MAGA voters.
Who are they being misinformed and misled by?
Republican billionaire James Pritzker.
Read Jennifer Bilek at the11thhourblog.com
MAGA voters? By Trump himself, primarily, but most of his supporters live in a MAGA media bubble of Fox News, Newsmax or OANN.
Remember when Rupert Murdoch bought Fox to serve as his propaganda mouthpiece for conservative politics and runaway financial greed?
And when we objected to Republicans telling lies on Fox and calling it "news," they coined the term "infotainment"?
I sure do.
GLAAD, The Human Rights Campaign, The Trevor Project, WPATH, etc. etc.
And the media, who mostly do whatever the activist crowd tells them to. Same with the big medical associations.
And the Democratic party, who view "trans rights" as part of civil rights, real women be damned.
This is one of those questions that if failed to answer correctly in a modern world would immediately disqualify such a person from obtaining any position in life with any measurable authority or influence over anything. Men and Women are equal in value and worth but wildly different in personality and sexual dimorphic which are unchangeable. Such differences should be protected and celebrated even a SCOTUS should understand basic premises and differences of men and women, but here we are.
Women and men are not wildly different in personality.
We are forced into rigid sexist gender stereotypes from babyhood.
But we're all just people.
Brilliant image!
Democrats will be seeing the inside of the Oval Office sooner than you think, because Trump ignores not just common sense, the rights of women, and what the people want, but the Constitution and democracy itself. His second term will not end well, and voters will take their chances with the Democrats because there won't be a better option.
We all saw what he did last time.
We knew he'd be even worse this time.
My god, humans have short memories.
The Democrats are embracing being the party of the 20 to 30% and that is not going to get them into the Oval Office. Trump is doing exactly what he campaigned on doing.
And yet half of our country not just votes for them but cheers them on. I was one of them until they hurt my child Never again.
Last I saw, Democrats had 45 seats in the US Senate, Independents had 2, and Republicans had 53. So where does the 51 Democrats number come from that you reference in the first paragraph?
Or is this article referring to a vote in one of the state legislatures? Very unclear!
the politicization of anything, especially science, is bad news. GOP politicians are bowing to trump's will in a similar fashion, altho in their case they risk death threats if they cross him. Dem politicians only face disagreement and controversy. not sure why they are ignoring the survey results...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5jodzsnqJ4
Incredibly ignorant.
The Dems have great skill, even genius, at choosing the wrong hills to die on.
Meanwhile, the Republicans die on the MAGA mountain.
in this case, yes
Censorship, open borders, war… so not just this hill.
Republicans are the Party of War.
Jimmy Carter was our last President with no wars. Reagan and the Bushes fixed that, all right.
My hunch is that Wealthy Democrats are voting on behalf of their own offspring. I used to not be cynical. Life changed me.
democrats starting obama are at the root cause of allowing this cult to propagate.
people need to wake up and realize this is not the party of kennedy or “blue dog” democrats of the past and stop obstinately voting for them.
Right JFK as he was personally flawed, believed in the Catholic Church and its Catechism. God created a man and a woman and they are recognised at birth by sight.
They need to be told about Di-ag.org!
(Minor comment, trans identified women are allowed in women's sports, as long as they aren't taking steroids, I think? Basically, it's a sex based distinction -- no one is asking for their gender, that's their personal subjective information....)