As a sensitive teen boy in the mid 80’s, my mother was relieved to discover I was not gay. She would have fully accepted me, but said she would’ve been saddened by the idea that my life would be harder as a gay man. Social acceptance of homosexuality was still tepid, and navigating life as a gay man posed a unique set of challenges. Being gay in America no longer carries those burdens because society has embraced that kind of diversity. In 2023, homosexuality is simply part of the natural human landscape. My kid does not give a second thought to same sex partnerships. While trans individuals are afforded the same hard-won legal protections afforded the gay community, they are still not fully accepted and face discrimination in a variety of settings. Nearly all of my peers claim if we encourage our culture to accept trans identifying individuals in the same way we now accept homosexuality, in just a few years having a “trans” kid would be no different from having a gay kid.
Interesting how much this caused a stir and pushback on this site. I think your therapy approach is positive and I hope my nephew received the same type of counseling and guidance over the last year but I have no way of knowing. He is estranged from his parents and I believe his therapy sessions have now stopped. These confused and vulnerable boys and girls need a good sounding board and someone to help them weigh the pros and cons. Too many people/trusted authorities and strangers are ready to affirm our children without divulging the entire truth…the emotional, mental and physical consequences are life long and recovery or detransitioning is extremely difficult and painful. Explaining the “what ifs” of changing your mind to a determined child wanting to be the opposite sex and their willing to take drugs the rest of their lives and live with scars inside and out needs to be discussed. Our children need our help and everyone on this site needs support and hope. Your essay gave me hope. Thank you.
Interesting idea Donna. I'm not sure in vitro or artificial insemination are sexual are they? Perhaps you are right, just seems an unusually broad definition of sexual.
Scientific thinking, wherein preferred outcomes are intentionally reprioritized in favor of allowing the evidence to lead the way, is confusing.
Even as a child, I observed adults rejecting concerns about physical health in favor of smoking, eating too much salt or junk food, or just leaving the cat to fend for itself during a hurricane (cats need their good health, too:) My point is that whether it's ourselves, the police we judge, the drug addicts who neglect or endanger children, or our own governments and institutions, who mandate 'best practices', it's hard for people not to perceive the prioritization of personal physical health as something to sacrifice or take for granted in the pursuit of goals.
Callous disregard for health seems egotistical to me I that it denies our fundamental vulnerability to permanent afflictions and death. To me, your position: let a patient explore options by allowing time-consuming thought to transpire rather that just act fast like an impulse shopper or well-practised athlete, is unfathomable in our consumerist or loyalist team sports oriented culture.
The reason gender ideology is particularly damning is that both loyalty to the prevailing politics and consumerist impulse shopper training align seamlessly.
The personal health oriented and both apolitical and non-consumerist approach is heretical.
Mammalian genetics isn’t as simple as Mendel’s peas and DNA is not the only influence on phenotypes and psychology.. what about the uterine environment? What promotes masculinization in the womb?
If you won’t even read about this then I am not bother to answer you. You are unbearably ignorant.
“Choose to be gay” is a right-wing trope. I don’t waste time on wingers.
I failed to make myself clear, and it’s an individual choice, to be sure, whether to validate, accommodate, or affirm in the language of gender assignment, but I’m on the Do Not Affirm, Do Not Consent opinion. It is my very unwavering opinion that supporting or encouraging a delusional belief that can only cause emotional and physical harm is NOT taking care of or being responsible for the children, and it DOES matter. Sex is binary, they and them indicate plurality, gender is not fluid, and I will not allow myself to fall into the position of thinking I am unkind and uncaring to not use plural pronouns JUST IN CASE a gender-confused (I don’t believe that is possible. I think there are emotional and mental health issues being ignored and mistreated) might be listening.
Gender was little more than a shorthand for "those aspects of personality culturally associated with a person's sex" before the genderborg got hold of it and started yapping about "gender identity" and all that rubbish.
The word has been adulterated into uselessness and we should stop using it.
Are you going to go further, on your previous comments ( abject lies and slander, you've claimed that I've suggested that homosexuality is survival risk to humanity), and lie and slander again by claiming that I've suggested that gays and lesbians should be lobotomies? You are an abject liar.
One of you said that homosexuality thwarts reproduction; maybe it was you, maybe it was the other, I don't see a lot of point in keeping track which is which.
The lobotomy thing? You are hearing voices. My only mention of lobotomy is two posts above and if you read there what you just wrote, you need a little time in a mental institution.
Yes, homosexuality makes reproduction impossible. You have cognitive pathology is you can't accept it. Its one of the downsides of homosexuality, reproduction is impossible. Reproducing with a sperm donor leaves a child at risk of serious trauma, not knowing the father and without a father figure ( a known risk for issues in life, see some statistics) and reproducing via a surrogate is morally corrupt and degenerate abuse of women and babies, in addition to the trauma of a child growing up without a mother, from birth, and being bottle fed, which is a health issue. Homosexuality has serious health issues to bring. Many of us are sick of being silenced on this. An honest approach would be to tell children that whilst homosexuality is legal (outside of islamist countries) in most of the world and that discrimination is not just very wrong and illegal, there are definite downsides to consider, as above, and that is without bringing the issue of reconciling it with a family faith, which some may have, which brings another layer of distressing considerations. It is still a choice to be gay and I am absolutely fine, personally, for people to make that choice, but it is an evil lie to deny that being gay or lesbian is just a big happy rainbow ride, progressive, good, better than heterosexual. I'm seeing books in libraries, guides for teens, which talk about anal sex in terms of pleasure and not in terms of health risks from anal trauma and more. As an example. This won't fly, many of us are sick of the propaganda and we won't disappear just because you've called us all cognitively pathological, homophobes and whatever else. Go on, bring it on. I don't care. We don't care.
"We." Who do you claim to speak for? Do you have an affidavit from Donna giving you the authority to speak for her? How many others?
Your preoccupation with gay sex is creepy, especially for one who claims to be against it. In fact you think about the details of gay sex more than I do, nd I've actually had gay sex thousands of times.
Anal trauma? What would you know about that and what prompts you to think about it? That trauma pretty much never happens.
Yes, I'm sure you'e seeng books in libraries that offer instructions in anal sex. Sure you have.
There is something definitely unwholesome and wrong about you, in addition to your laughable belief that we choose our sexual orientation. Nobody does.
As long as you're not teaching children that anal sex doesn't present any issues, you can do as you wish. Your determination to battle all the rest of us, who are not gay, into agreeing with your preoccupation with gay sex (obsession, actually - thousands of times? how many casual partners have you had, and from what age?) and trying to bully us, for, accepting, for one, your absurd and, to some of us, sickening promiscuity ( you've had anal sex thousands of times) is truly disturbing. I agreed for people to do what they wish, in their private bedrooms. Not to teach it to others as the norm or something to aspire to. We're remain heteronormative and tell our children all that is unsaid in pornographic library books.
I'm a therapist as well. I appreciate your comments. I normalize rather than pathologize intense emotions using a developmental lifespan approach. I've supported trans individuals through difficult times, navigating the stressors of their lives. I do not recall ever affirming their gender. I affirmed their desire to live without the debilitating mental health symptoms, and used my skills to educate, support, explore, and normalize their pain. I am a proponent of do the least harm, not the most good so lifelong medicalization of young people will never be my recommendation. I believe social media is normalizing pathology, exposing our kids to concepts they are developmentally unable to understand and reject. Their parents are overwhelmed, heartbroken, and emotionally battered by an activist culture that manipulates them into believing their child will complete suicide without medical and pharmaceutical intervention. We're living in a world where people have just enough information to be dangerous and given a platform upon which to be influential. I worry for us all.
Great piece. You stopped short of saying the trans movement is essentially homophobic, essentially destroying gay people's fertility, sexual function and as a result mental health. I'm increasingly seeing the T as a kind of parasite that has attached to the LBG host in order to destroy it. How terrible. (I'm straight btw in case that matters)
There is only one way to reproduce, but destruction of fertility at the level of physically-destroying-their-ability-to-ever-naturally-have-children - especially so young that they don't yet know what the rest of their life will look like, And also screwing up their endocrine systems, bone marrow, etc ... is different than adults making choices to be in partnerships where they can't have biological children with each other.
Great short video by the LGB Alliance. Medical transitions are like conversion therapy. Nothing about it is affirming, or care. And it's not "gender", it's sex they're trying to change / destroy. While saying gender is fluid. OK, let gender be fluid. Stop poisoning children and chopping them up.
Simpleton. Gay people can have sex with women, they can marry women. Some conceal their homosexuality. How is it possible to be so opinionated about something you know so little about?
I’ve had heterosexual sex. It was fun. Screwing men is better.
Wow, amazing how people can get upset on SM so easily. Let's keep calm and respectful everyone. (I'm no saint myself haha). This is a site focusing on the terribleness of trans ideology and its effects... seems a shame to make it a critique of homosexuality. I think I was referring to all the other ways gay people can have children now - in vitro fertilization, artificial insemination, surrogate motherhood as well as the others suggested above. Peace my friends, peace
I’m getting ready to start my masters in counseling….will you be my supervisor in about a year? I’m dreading trying to find an internship/supervisor who has the approach you are taking, who is not full-out affirmation first thing. I’m mostly kidding about your supervising, but kind of serious too:)
Thank you for your letter. It gives me hope that there are people out there who are trying to be thoughtful about this subject.
It gives me hope that students are seeing through the ideology. Have you heard of the podcast Gender: A Wider Lens? I recommend it highly! Good luck in your counseling career?
“Good exploratory therapy” involved an intern slipping our child a copy of the Gender Quest workbook, a book that encourages children to snuggle up with their friends wearing a strap-on, to admire role models such as “the lady boys of Thailand,” and to shun those who question your new gender identity. There was no exploration of the self hatred, the self harm, the isolation and time spent online in Discord and DeviantArt during the pandemic, or the 5 other girls in her peer group who were also going through rapid onset gender dysphoria. There was only affirmation disguised as “good exploratory therapy.”
I wrote to our son's university's health clinic that started him on E, cc to the president's office, a few days back. I summarized the effects of estrogen on the male body and brain, as has been published in the recent medical literature in endocrinology and neuroendocrinology (here is a document I created, feel free to share if you find it helpful; all links lead to the original journal sources: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zko0511De4_flOnSfBcauaW1moMde-P2dDPesYnq_oc/edit?usp=sharing).
The response was a bit more hopeful this time (I hope!) and also legal-weaseling: "We are in complete agreement that the research on the long term outcomes of hormone therapy is constantly evolving. The articles that you sent have been shared with our Sexual Health and Wellness providers; we are committed to remaining vigilant to emerging science. We do abide by the process of informed consent prior to prescribing hormones to our patients."
Thank you for sharing this link. Do you know where I can find the complete article? The link only shows the info but not where it comes from. Would love to share it with my son. Thank you!
A trans kid will be different than a gay kid. You don't need surgery and hormones to be gay or lesbian.
The North American "affirmation only" treatment modality is more extreme than the WPATH guidelines which call for checking out comorbidities and treating them. Our treatment is acting like the internet doesn't exist, and this explosion in trans ID is organic.
Interesting how much this caused a stir and pushback on this site. I think your therapy approach is positive and I hope my nephew received the same type of counseling and guidance over the last year but I have no way of knowing. He is estranged from his parents and I believe his therapy sessions have now stopped. These confused and vulnerable boys and girls need a good sounding board and someone to help them weigh the pros and cons. Too many people/trusted authorities and strangers are ready to affirm our children without divulging the entire truth…the emotional, mental and physical consequences are life long and recovery or detransitioning is extremely difficult and painful. Explaining the “what ifs” of changing your mind to a determined child wanting to be the opposite sex and their willing to take drugs the rest of their lives and live with scars inside and out needs to be discussed. Our children need our help and everyone on this site needs support and hope. Your essay gave me hope. Thank you.
How can you find a therapist like that?
Why oh why are there so few therapists who think as you do????
Interesting idea Donna. I'm not sure in vitro or artificial insemination are sexual are they? Perhaps you are right, just seems an unusually broad definition of sexual.
Very, very good interview with Helen Joyce.
https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685392097824645121?s=20
Scientific thinking, wherein preferred outcomes are intentionally reprioritized in favor of allowing the evidence to lead the way, is confusing.
Even as a child, I observed adults rejecting concerns about physical health in favor of smoking, eating too much salt or junk food, or just leaving the cat to fend for itself during a hurricane (cats need their good health, too:) My point is that whether it's ourselves, the police we judge, the drug addicts who neglect or endanger children, or our own governments and institutions, who mandate 'best practices', it's hard for people not to perceive the prioritization of personal physical health as something to sacrifice or take for granted in the pursuit of goals.
Callous disregard for health seems egotistical to me I that it denies our fundamental vulnerability to permanent afflictions and death. To me, your position: let a patient explore options by allowing time-consuming thought to transpire rather that just act fast like an impulse shopper or well-practised athlete, is unfathomable in our consumerist or loyalist team sports oriented culture.
The reason gender ideology is particularly damning is that both loyalty to the prevailing politics and consumerist impulse shopper training align seamlessly.
The personal health oriented and both apolitical and non-consumerist approach is heretical.
You are ignorant and simpleminded.
Mammalian genetics isn’t as simple as Mendel’s peas and DNA is not the only influence on phenotypes and psychology.. what about the uterine environment? What promotes masculinization in the womb?
If you won’t even read about this then I am not bother to answer you. You are unbearably ignorant.
“Choose to be gay” is a right-wing trope. I don’t waste time on wingers.
Don’t bother me again. Go read or STFU.
I failed to make myself clear, and it’s an individual choice, to be sure, whether to validate, accommodate, or affirm in the language of gender assignment, but I’m on the Do Not Affirm, Do Not Consent opinion. It is my very unwavering opinion that supporting or encouraging a delusional belief that can only cause emotional and physical harm is NOT taking care of or being responsible for the children, and it DOES matter. Sex is binary, they and them indicate plurality, gender is not fluid, and I will not allow myself to fall into the position of thinking I am unkind and uncaring to not use plural pronouns JUST IN CASE a gender-confused (I don’t believe that is possible. I think there are emotional and mental health issues being ignored and mistreated) might be listening.
Gender was little more than a shorthand for "those aspects of personality culturally associated with a person's sex" before the genderborg got hold of it and started yapping about "gender identity" and all that rubbish.
The word has been adulterated into uselessness and we should stop using it.
What, exactly, are the benefits of a "medical transition"? I feel sick. Benefits are surely discussed with cons, i.e. medical cons.
Last time we addressed a psychiatrist malady with surgery was lobotomies. One would think we’d learn from that dark chapter.
Are you going to go further, on your previous comments ( abject lies and slander, you've claimed that I've suggested that homosexuality is survival risk to humanity), and lie and slander again by claiming that I've suggested that gays and lesbians should be lobotomies? You are an abject liar.
You have some serious cognitive pathology.
One of you said that homosexuality thwarts reproduction; maybe it was you, maybe it was the other, I don't see a lot of point in keeping track which is which.
The lobotomy thing? You are hearing voices. My only mention of lobotomy is two posts above and if you read there what you just wrote, you need a little time in a mental institution.
Yes, homosexuality makes reproduction impossible. You have cognitive pathology is you can't accept it. Its one of the downsides of homosexuality, reproduction is impossible. Reproducing with a sperm donor leaves a child at risk of serious trauma, not knowing the father and without a father figure ( a known risk for issues in life, see some statistics) and reproducing via a surrogate is morally corrupt and degenerate abuse of women and babies, in addition to the trauma of a child growing up without a mother, from birth, and being bottle fed, which is a health issue. Homosexuality has serious health issues to bring. Many of us are sick of being silenced on this. An honest approach would be to tell children that whilst homosexuality is legal (outside of islamist countries) in most of the world and that discrimination is not just very wrong and illegal, there are definite downsides to consider, as above, and that is without bringing the issue of reconciling it with a family faith, which some may have, which brings another layer of distressing considerations. It is still a choice to be gay and I am absolutely fine, personally, for people to make that choice, but it is an evil lie to deny that being gay or lesbian is just a big happy rainbow ride, progressive, good, better than heterosexual. I'm seeing books in libraries, guides for teens, which talk about anal sex in terms of pleasure and not in terms of health risks from anal trauma and more. As an example. This won't fly, many of us are sick of the propaganda and we won't disappear just because you've called us all cognitively pathological, homophobes and whatever else. Go on, bring it on. I don't care. We don't care.
"We." Who do you claim to speak for? Do you have an affidavit from Donna giving you the authority to speak for her? How many others?
Your preoccupation with gay sex is creepy, especially for one who claims to be against it. In fact you think about the details of gay sex more than I do, nd I've actually had gay sex thousands of times.
Anal trauma? What would you know about that and what prompts you to think about it? That trauma pretty much never happens.
Yes, I'm sure you'e seeng books in libraries that offer instructions in anal sex. Sure you have.
There is something definitely unwholesome and wrong about you, in addition to your laughable belief that we choose our sexual orientation. Nobody does.
Get some help.
As long as you're not teaching children that anal sex doesn't present any issues, you can do as you wish. Your determination to battle all the rest of us, who are not gay, into agreeing with your preoccupation with gay sex (obsession, actually - thousands of times? how many casual partners have you had, and from what age?) and trying to bully us, for, accepting, for one, your absurd and, to some of us, sickening promiscuity ( you've had anal sex thousands of times) is truly disturbing. I agreed for people to do what they wish, in their private bedrooms. Not to teach it to others as the norm or something to aspire to. We're remain heteronormative and tell our children all that is unsaid in pornographic library books.
Get psychiatric help
"Self-determination is a fundamental tenant"
*tenet
hat-tip, fellow wordcop.
Unique means singular, not distinctive.
Ask, reveal, and invite are verbs.
Impact and target are nouns.
"They" is plural.
Thanks for the correction.
Mon plaisir.
I'm a therapist as well. I appreciate your comments. I normalize rather than pathologize intense emotions using a developmental lifespan approach. I've supported trans individuals through difficult times, navigating the stressors of their lives. I do not recall ever affirming their gender. I affirmed their desire to live without the debilitating mental health symptoms, and used my skills to educate, support, explore, and normalize their pain. I am a proponent of do the least harm, not the most good so lifelong medicalization of young people will never be my recommendation. I believe social media is normalizing pathology, exposing our kids to concepts they are developmentally unable to understand and reject. Their parents are overwhelmed, heartbroken, and emotionally battered by an activist culture that manipulates them into believing their child will complete suicide without medical and pharmaceutical intervention. We're living in a world where people have just enough information to be dangerous and given a platform upon which to be influential. I worry for us all.
Great piece. You stopped short of saying the trans movement is essentially homophobic, essentially destroying gay people's fertility, sexual function and as a result mental health. I'm increasingly seeing the T as a kind of parasite that has attached to the LBG host in order to destroy it. How terrible. (I'm straight btw in case that matters)
There is only one way to reproduce, but destruction of fertility at the level of physically-destroying-their-ability-to-ever-naturally-have-children - especially so young that they don't yet know what the rest of their life will look like, And also screwing up their endocrine systems, bone marrow, etc ... is different than adults making choices to be in partnerships where they can't have biological children with each other.
Great short video by the LGB Alliance. Medical transitions are like conversion therapy. Nothing about it is affirming, or care. And it's not "gender", it's sex they're trying to change / destroy. While saying gender is fluid. OK, let gender be fluid. Stop poisoning children and chopping them up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNePw19LFGc
Simpleton. Gay people can have sex with women, they can marry women. Some conceal their homosexuality. How is it possible to be so opinionated about something you know so little about?
I’ve had heterosexual sex. It was fun. Screwing men is better.
Wow, amazing how people can get upset on SM so easily. Let's keep calm and respectful everyone. (I'm no saint myself haha). This is a site focusing on the terribleness of trans ideology and its effects... seems a shame to make it a critique of homosexuality. I think I was referring to all the other ways gay people can have children now - in vitro fertilization, artificial insemination, surrogate motherhood as well as the others suggested above. Peace my friends, peace
I’m getting ready to start my masters in counseling….will you be my supervisor in about a year? I’m dreading trying to find an internship/supervisor who has the approach you are taking, who is not full-out affirmation first thing. I’m mostly kidding about your supervising, but kind of serious too:)
Thank you for your letter. It gives me hope that there are people out there who are trying to be thoughtful about this subject.
It gives me hope that students are seeing through the ideology. Have you heard of the podcast Gender: A Wider Lens? I recommend it highly! Good luck in your counseling career?
Yes I listen to that podcast and it’s great!!!
How do you feel about the "cost of transition" being a consideration in this, as above? My earlier comment is below.
“Good exploratory therapy” involved an intern slipping our child a copy of the Gender Quest workbook, a book that encourages children to snuggle up with their friends wearing a strap-on, to admire role models such as “the lady boys of Thailand,” and to shun those who question your new gender identity. There was no exploration of the self hatred, the self harm, the isolation and time spent online in Discord and DeviantArt during the pandemic, or the 5 other girls in her peer group who were also going through rapid onset gender dysphoria. There was only affirmation disguised as “good exploratory therapy.”
I wrote to our son's university's health clinic that started him on E, cc to the president's office, a few days back. I summarized the effects of estrogen on the male body and brain, as has been published in the recent medical literature in endocrinology and neuroendocrinology (here is a document I created, feel free to share if you find it helpful; all links lead to the original journal sources: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zko0511De4_flOnSfBcauaW1moMde-P2dDPesYnq_oc/edit?usp=sharing).
The response was a bit more hopeful this time (I hope!) and also legal-weaseling: "We are in complete agreement that the research on the long term outcomes of hormone therapy is constantly evolving. The articles that you sent have been shared with our Sexual Health and Wellness providers; we are committed to remaining vigilant to emerging science. We do abide by the process of informed consent prior to prescribing hormones to our patients."
Thank you for sharing this link. Do you know where I can find the complete article? The link only shows the info but not where it comes from. Would love to share it with my son. Thank you!
The substack post I wrote describing all the articles is at https://mungeribabu.substack.com/p/estrogen-is-really-bad-for-men. I shared PDF copies of only 4 of them with the University, and they are at:
1) https://doi.org/10.1016/j.yhbeh.2020.104839
2) https://doi.org/10.1016/j.psyneuen.2016.09.028
3) https://doi.org/10.1016/j.euroneuro.2014.11.019
4) https://doi.org/10.1186/s13104-020-04952-3
Thank you!
"You will kill yourself if you don't get this treatment which might have a negative effect several years from now, research isn't clear, sign here."
A trans kid will be different than a gay kid. You don't need surgery and hormones to be gay or lesbian.
The North American "affirmation only" treatment modality is more extreme than the WPATH guidelines which call for checking out comorbidities and treating them. Our treatment is acting like the internet doesn't exist, and this explosion in trans ID is organic.