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Damaris's avatar

It should also be noted that many women in same sex relationships DO want kids. Men too, but less so. It is notable though in my circle, so while they are still less likely, this is changing. Germany encourages gay men to coparent w lesbian couples & bans surrogacy. Much better idea : no womb exploitation & kids will have an involved dad. Should have this is other countries, instead of surrogacy & sperm donation. Would be far cheaper too, which would also encourage lesbians & gay men to have kids. The cost is a big thing atm.

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Donna's avatar

Good grief! What is a 12 year old lesbian? I'm now completely convinced. The Victorians had it right.

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Damaris's avatar

Studies show lesbians typically become aware of their attraction the same age as straight children do. Ofc some may not actually be, it's hard to know at that age. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27113562/&ved=2ahUKEwjp6LiymrWNAxViUkEAHSXrGPIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3TAeV97ooF6EJ7_0XvPkIm

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Donna's avatar

Twelve- year- olds aren't heterosexual either!!!!! Not unless they have been molested or something, and maybe not even then. Twelve year olds can't imagine the ins and outs of penetration, and certainly don't desire it. Even after female menses begin, 12 year old girls don't want to be penetrated or engage in heterosex. The best that they can come up with is what our parents called puppy love which by the way never involved sexual penetration or activity. The best that a girl can come up with at age 12 is a crush and that can happen with either a boy or a girl.

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Damaris's avatar

Oh, I certainly don't think the study meant they desired sex, just that they became aware of being attracted to others. But I agree that whether you're lesbian, straight or bi as an adult, you won't really understand attraction at 12, nor should you. Puppy love is obvs not the same as mature attraction.

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Donna's avatar

The ancient Greeks had four Koine words for love. None of them meant romantic attraction. That is a modern day concept that has quickly devolved This year, a Gallup poll stated that over 9% of Americans were LGB. At one point it was less than 2% For the sake of averting the argument that new tolerance has brought the statistics to the real truth of the matter, let's remind ourselves that in the history of humanity, a real LBG percentage of well under 9% was not sustainable for population growth. (Homosexuality has a very high fitness cost in regards to reproduction.)

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Damaris's avatar

It's also noteworthy that lgbtq now includes asexual. More girls feel asexual now due to the pill & antidepressants

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Donna's avatar

Yeah. Asexual is another name for persons who are addicted to masturbation. Calling it a romantic or sexual orientation is stupid. But then so is the whole notion of romantic attraction, and certainly romantic attraction in 12 year olds.

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Damaris's avatar

Actually, recent surveys have found that around 40% of lesbians in general and married gay couples want kids. The main obstacles are costs, the solution to which I outlined above, and finding the right partner in a small dating pool, a particular issue for lesbians, who are fewer than gay men. Here are the studies

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/same-sex-parenting-press-release/#:~:text=Press%20Press%20Releases-,More%20than%2040%25%20of%20married%20same%2Dsex%20couples%20surveyed%20want,additional%20children%E2%80%94in%20the%20future.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666334123000430

The REAL threat to fertility is the abysmally low number of Gen Z having sex & the rise of antinatalism, not a tiny percentage of people who actually pursue gay relationships (as opposed to iding as lgbtq), many of whom do want kids.

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Donna's avatar

Homosexuals might want children, but they cannot reproduce by homosexuality. Thus, homosexuality has a cost, in Evolutionary speak. The cost of homosexual men buying eggs and renting wombs isn't cheap. It should be against the law. American homosexuals shouldn't even be allowed to go to overseas to purchase these products. The hardships to the females used as stock is unimaginably monstrous.

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Damaris's avatar

Also, I'm afraid that I don't really understand your antipathy to the concept of romantic attraction. Surely the concept of a combination of philia, eros and storge deserves a word? After all, at its best it includes all but transcends them too. Surely some people have always felt erotic but also friendship & family love when deeply bonded to their partners? Do you think it is a negative thing?

. I agree that it's not appropriate for young kids or young tweens ofc. What do you mean when you say 'it devolved'?

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Donna's avatar

There is no "combination" of lust. brotherly love, and family love that equates to romantic love. All of the molecules in our brain that spark that initial excitement in two young people dissolves over time. The ancients understood this. It's why when reading ancient Egyptian and biblical writings, it is not unusual for husbands and wives to refer to each other as brother and sister. It's why the Greeks, who were smarter than us, didn't even have a word for it. But we are suggesting to our twelve year olds that they should feel it.

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Damaris's avatar

I'm afraid that I don't really understand what you mean about the percentages. Are you saying that 'well under 9%' LGB is not sustainable? In which case I disagree. Or do you mean that 9% is not sustainable? I agree, but as I noted, these stats give a false picture. Aside from the bi women issue, which explains a lot of the uptick, a lot of it is just straight couples iding as queer to be cool, or as one of those nonsense ideas like gender fluid. The trans movement is v worrying but many also just say gender fluid for clout & don't do anything permanent or damaging.

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Donna's avatar

Well under 9% is unsustainable. According to the latest Gallup poll it is 9%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/656708/lgbtq-identification-rises.aspx

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Damaris's avatar

Check Musa al-Gharbi, J Michael Bailey, Bryan Caplan & Kat Rosenfeld for that info on bi women.

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Donna's avatar

I'm perfectly well read, thank you,

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Damaris's avatar

As I have stated repeatedly on this thread, the percentage of same sex sexual activity has not gone up. Most of the rise is esp women saying that they are bi for clout, most are not, and even ones who are mostly still want to settle w a man. I am bi & mostly date women but this is rare & and the dating pool is as small as it ever was. There has been no big influx.

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Donna's avatar

Then again, 12-year-olds shouldn't even be given the notion of same sex attraction--since it is "mostly fake lesbians "for clout" sic, it is especially confusing to young children who just aren't ready for the hardships of a family.

Song of Songs 2:7

Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you by the gazelles and by the does of the field: Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires.

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Grandma Eileen's avatar

Thank you for your encouraging story. Transgender is indeed a serious life race. I hope that your daughter will stay stable and focused on her future. You did a great job helping her to navigate this race. You gave us hope. I believe she will win this race!

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Luc's avatar

So how do you get her to recognize that the mental health issues are what what made all of Identity issues front and center? That it will is really the mental health that you need to take care of?

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Notes from the Under Dog L.'s avatar

Why was she on SSRI’s? Since 7th grade? The road to medicalization began at that moment.

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Un-silent's avatar

Interesting story, especially about the couple your children met at the Renaissance Fair. Why did they come so far to meet with your kids? I have been reading another substack "BX writes from BX's substack" which talks about acceleration groups. On that substack the groups are Satanist cults that trap young people online and get them to do terrible things which accelerate over time. Many kids end up with mental issues or commit crimes. It makes one wonder if there are different types of acceleration groups (possibly for trans/LGBTQ) that brainwash kids. All of the stories here are similar in being that the children change in extreme ways, turn on their parents, and consider permanent physical solutions. There are many predators on social media so this is definitely a possibility.

I am happy that your daughter is doing better now and I hope she can make a full recovery. Not too thrilled with them using Ketamine, but I hope that is just a temporary step towards total recovery free from all drugs.

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Mark Christenson's avatar

Praying for y’all to keep moving to right direction, to her accepting herself as a female.

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DareToBeTruthful's avatar

Thank you for sharing your story. If she is college-bound, be very thoughtful about where you tour and where she applies. Perhaps start quietly researching this now.

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Mara U.'s avatar

“They even disclosed that they have needed to meet with several students who claimed sexual assault, sexual harassment, and rape-culture. When what these kids really experienced was flirting.”

I get how someone could consider flirting to be sexual harassment, but how would someone consider flirting to be sexual assault?

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Kimberly Ells's avatar

What a heart wrenching but hopeful story!! I’m so glad she’s doing better and rediscovering herself. You have been a hero even through your anguish.

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Beeswax's avatar

One of the most interesting things about your story is that you found a non-affirming psychotherapist right away. This is rare. It didn't do much good in the long run, because social pressure is much more powerful than the hard work of getting to know yourself with the help of an adult stranger. Nevertheless, it bought you some time, and your daughter seems to be maturing out of her obsession. One day she'll look back on these years and thank you for your steadfast commitment and love for her.

By the way, ketamine can have toxic effects. I'm glad to hear she's not relying on it.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/drug-left-mum-27-needing-31385436

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Hotgambler's avatar

Dad of a self-harming, desisted ROGD, now 20.

1. I let her smoke cannabis for her issues. I wanted mushroom therapy, but she resisted. I wanted a stellate ganglion block, but she resisted. No way would I ever allow T. I was tough and her mom followed.

2. We watched fantasy shows as a family, featuring strong kick-ass females. “Wednesday,” “Wheel of Time,”Captain Marvel,” etc. It worked around/ after age 18. When my baby put her hair in Wednesday Addams pigtails, I could finally relax.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

2

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PITT's avatar

Have you joined parentsofdesisters.info?

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Erica Weinstein's avatar

Thank Gd her health is improving! Not sure about ketamine, but I know it’s taken off as a mental health treatment in the past decade. Two cents: revel in all of the healthy changes that have occurred & share how you feel about the part she played/plays in them. Continue to focus on her strengths & make time to go on a few fun adventures together (especially outdoors).

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Average Dad's avatar

Wow! Great story, boy have times changed for the worse when it comes to parents getting their children safely through adolescence/puberty. How can we reverse this. I think this Mom/Family is doing great, ketamine seems extreme but I am open minded. I don't like that so many are on SSI's to begin with, I am very against these drugs.

The only advice I would give is to listen to Stephanie Winn and check out her resources and podcasts.

https://course.rogdrepair.com/p/rogd-repair

Stephanie has done many great podcasts to garner knowledge and wisdom for us all on Trans issues especially.

Her latest one is an absolute must listen, it will give you hope.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-must-be-some-kind-of-therapist/id1612777134?i=1000702482224

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CA mom's avatar

I love your story, thank you. It brings so much hope. It sounds like your daughter is on the trajectory out of this thing, thanks to your persistence and her internal resources.

I read another account of a teen, who through a psychedelic experience with LSD, came to the conclusion she was not trans.

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