Netherlands. Why I am not surprised?! A country that has women in windows selling their bodies and calling it "freedom". I am being there and saw it with my own eyes, the surprising thing or not, it is that the women don't look Dutch at all, the most are pretty Asians, I would dare to say that the only white I saw was Eastern European looking (I travel a lot so I can identify features and culture). Amsterdam is a sinkhole, the saddest place in Europe I am being in my life. Experimenting in children do that to a society, doing horrible things to humans transform a society. It is what we called a culture of Death where humans beings are discarded, we are just a bunch of cells put together randomly, the "useless eaters" as some character described us in a UN meeting. Dutch doctors are part of that culture and they think that is perfectly ok to give drugs to alter the natural human grow that will bring more problems to the already stressed kid, they think that affirming a mental condition will bring the kid OUT of their mental condition? Only psychos or crazies come up with these ideas. I suspect they lost it!
More important question: Where a kid come to this ideas?? Because we all have been children and that thought is not a "natural" thought, never met in my life a children who had any problem of "identity". That is the unlawful dilemma because UNICEF is very clear that children have to be protected at all costs so these experiments are illegal and unlawful specially in Netherlands where we have the Hague where the UN (UNICEF is part of that) met.
It is also true that during the teen agers years, in the modern world specifically, teenagers can suffer distress and be confused at times and have doubts about their identities or questioning anything so they started to separate psychologically from their parents and dressed in ridiculous outfits and that it what we call STAGES or A FASE. Parents used to monitor that from a distance without interferer too much but also NO encouraging it or affirming! That approach gives results and they grew over it, few were really stressed about identity and those have a condition that until not so long ago was called GENDER DYSPHORIA and they need some therapy and that is all. But the society is the problem now, we are not forward, we are backwards and science had became magick, science had became a tool of control, oppression and justification of horror experimental on humans. Science is the new religion, but science without God leads to this, not ethics, no moral, no heart, not soul. That we are able to do something doesn't mean we should. It is sad because real science is useful to understand the world in which we live in and take advance in positive ways of that knowledge, and experimentation on humans shouldn't be one of those ways, less of all to change nature.
As far as I know, it was the intention of the Dutch 'doctors' is to prevent the normal pubertal development of secondary sex anatomy, so that they could better perform their bizarre 'sex change' genital surgery when the poor child became an adult, and then believed that a surgeon could make a vagina on a man and a penis on a women. The Dutch and their followers have failed spectacularly (how do they now make their vagina from a 'blocked or paused' penis? Or a penis from a tiny clitoris - they must now use chunks of forearm or thigh instead? But the transgenderists still have remarkable power and reach, and are able to convince organizations like the Southern African HIV Clinicians Society, that all this is possible - and necessary! - and that they (the SAHCS) should be thier mouthpiece, and their vector for "gender affirming care". Children deserve better.
It shouldn't be a shock that many adolescents and young adults who once identified as trans ultimately desist and realize they're gay.
So-called gender nonconformity has always been common among gays. It was, and is, normal. But trans ideology subverts kids' ability to discover their identities and sexuality on their own time. Hence, the phenomenon of desistance. Better late than never, but at what price?
When I came out over 50 years ago, on the cusp of the women's liberation movement, I was surprised to learn that many lesbians divided themselves into "butches and femmes." Butches were more likely to be tomboys who grew up to be masculine in dress, mannerism and interests. Femmes were more traditionally feminine in style and interests. Lesbian couples paired up according to these labels. Tellingly, they referred to the butch/femme dyad as "role playing."
But with the influence of feminist lesbians who identified only as women, "role playing" became less important. Not that peoples' erotic preferences changed, but we relaxed with the roles and accepted the reality that all lesbians were women, whether butch or femme. We came to see sex-role stereotypes for what they were: costumes, which we were free to keep or shed. This led to an expansion of our ability to express ourselves and love ourselves as women, regardless of presentation.
One night at a party somebody wondered out loud if two butches could be lovers. Someone chimed in, "Now, that's REAL homosexuality!" and we all laughed. Underneath the joke was a profound truth.
The trans indoctrination imposed on kids deprives future gays of our right to grow up in the bodies we were born with. Despite the rhetoric of "inclusion," trans is homophobic. Not all gender-dysphoric kids grow up to be gay, and some don't have gender dysphoria but grow up to be gay. Still, the slogan, "STOP TRANSING GAY KIDS!" fits. Every child's path is unique.
The medical violence of "transgenderist" gender-enforcing homophobic conversion therapy is beyond the wildest imagings of even the most fervent anti-conversion therapy activist of previous decades.
The cruelty of targeting these kids with their own insecurities about being homosexual in a homophobic world really does boggle the mind.
WPATH’s early (2012+) recommended studies demonstrated that up to 94% of children referred for gender dysphoria (77-94% in one set of studies and 73-88% in another) will grow out of their gender dysphoria naturally. The major difference between the rates was biological sex with the lower percentages being females. The big trans pushers know if they can't solidify children/adolescents/teens in their gender confusion early on with gender affirmation through social transitioning/counseling/therapy/drugs, they will reconcile their "gender identities" with their biological sex once they make it through puberty. That's what the most recent unbiased studies show. And that's why they target pre- and pubescent children. Evil through and through.
I apologize for taking so long to get back with you on this. I finally gave up going through my library of articles, studies, etc., and went to the SEGM.org site. The original article has the links to the studies. https://segm.org/early-social-gender-transition-persistence
"The following quotes from the Dutch clinicians encapsulated the Dutch concern with early SGT:
“As mentioned earlier, symptoms of GID [Gender Identity Disorder] at prepubertal ages decrease or even disappear in a considerable percentage of children (estimates range from 80–95%) [11,13]. Therefore, any intervention in childhood would seem premature and inappropriate." (Cohen-Kettenis et al., 2008, p. 1895)
"Because most gender dysphoric children will not remain gender dysphoric through adolescence (Wallien & Cohen-Kettenis, 2008), we recommend that young children not yet make a complete social transition (different clothing, a different given name, referring to a boy as “her” instead of “him”) before the very early stages of puberty." (de Vries and Cohen-Kettenis, 2012, p. 308)
"In making this recommendation, we aim to prevent youths with nonpersisting gender dysphoria from having to make a complex change back to the role of their natal gender (Steensma & Cohen-Kettenis, 2011). In a qualitative follow-up study, several youths indicated how difficult it was for them to realize that they no longer wanted to live in the role of the other gender and to make this clear to the people around them (Steensma, Biemond, et al., 2011). These children never even officially transitioned but just were considered by everyone around them as belonging to the other (non-natal) gender. One may wonder how difficult it would be for children living already for years in an environment where no one (except for the family) is aware of the child’s natal sex to make a change back." (de Vries and Cohen-Kettenis, 2012, p. 308)"
It is somewhat relieving that it would be unlikely for a grown child to find the pathway back to accepting their sex through the parent, unless the adult child does not recognize saps influence. At least in their own subjective estimation, they are more likely to find that they themselves are changing their definitions of male and female and they way they think about it.
I often think that the likely existence of ambivalence in them needs to be allowed to walk its own self through resolution. If your parental influence upon that ambivalence inspires pushback, I worry that it will strengthen adherence to the ideology and the choices.
I would be careful with this interpretation. I certainly don't think it's an invitation for parents to take a completely hands-off approach. Not all parental influence is "pressure". The study says that people are unlikely to desist due to PRESSURE from family. That doesn't mean that parents have no influence and that they can't affect their children's thought process. All the better if it is done in a subtle way that promotes a young person's own thought process. (Of course some young adults are completely closed off and don't give us a chance, but we gotta keep trying when we can).
I agree with the balance you've added. I was thinking of the sense of desperation that exists in wanting to do anything to stop the walk down that path. It's so heavy. I have an adult estranged child, so, I don't have influence so much any more. I spend a lot of time thinking about how it's up to him to pick out his path. Things could change. The only way back now is for him to make that choice.
The psychotherapist holds the key. If she coddles, affirms, and supports the victimization narrative , it gets ugly. If the therapist is LGBT herself, the likelihood of the above is high. Parents should do all they can to avoid LGBT therapists even if they present themselves as experts in this area.
Beware straight people pretending they know more than gay people about the lives of the gay kids who make up 2/3 of the victims of the "transgenderist" gender-enforcement lobby.
Lesbians have been fighting this lobby longer than any of us. They have more insight into and a greater stake in saving LGB kids from "transgenderist" homophobic medical conversion therapy than any straight therapist.
That has not been my experience. I have never met a reasonably balanced gay or lesbian therapist because they tend to be disordered people. I'd stay away from them. By the way, Psychology Today, the largest online advertiser, does not let therapists advertise themselves as heterosexual or heterosexual-focused, but a therapist can say his/her "lived experience" is gay or lesbian - or queer (basically actively mentally ill). That experience is supposed to provide them with some privileged knowledge per se, but I think that is bullshit. It usually means that therapist is more invested in increasing the numbers of LGBTQ people on the planet so they can feel better about themselves. A questioning kid is going to have far greater potential to go down the trans avenue with a LGBTQ therapist. They may eschew the trans pathway but end up in the gay or lesbian pathway. Ask your potential therapist if they are heterosexual. They will give you a straight answer.
I’m not religious, but I did hire a Christian counselor for help with my daughter. I thought it was safer but I was wrong. Even she got on board the trans train. Now she’s on testosterone doing everything she can to ‘prove’ her transness. Add that onto the anti-psychotics the quack psychiatrist put her on. I’m not sure I’ll ever get my daughter back and if I do it sure as hell won’t be the woman she could’ve been.
I’m just hoping we don’t end up as a worst case scenario….
This is so depressing. We can trust almost no one. I'm with you. All the counselors and psychiatrists just go merrily along with what my daughter tells them. She has been on SSRIS for almost seven years nonstop. I keep begging her to read newer info about the dangers of antidepressants but like with trans, she so firmly believes that for her, depression is a lifelong ailment rather than what it likely was: a difficult period that coincided with puberty, under which I was led to believe SSRIs were the answer and a short term solution. Instead she has created a dependence for herself on that along with her trans identity. I don't see her ever extracting herself short of having some medical catastrophe that forces her off of trans and antidepressants. She wouldn't know if she is actually gay, straight or whatever because she's been medically numbed for seven years, since age 13. She doesn't even know who she is not on medications or caught up in a contagion. Keeping your family in my prayers - we sound lik ewe are in similar boats.
I still recall talking to Christian therapists who nearly gasped when they heard of my trans kid because they have been warned off of "conversion therapy".
I am so sorry a therapist failed you. Of course the shrinks are basically all homicidal maniacs pushing dangerous junk. I am also not a fan of Christian counselors. A lot of them are primitive thinkers. The key us to find a mature, secular counselor that knows which way is up and which way is down. The interview is important. Sorry again you got a charlatan.
We tried them all. Interviewed them all before she saw them. They had grand promises and seemed interested in helping but they ended up manipulated by my daughter. It was like the more I tried to get professional help the more it hurt her.
Most psychiatrists are quacks. The entire concept that prescribing a pill will fix a mental disorder like depression or autism has no foundation in science. The idea that a drug compensates or mitigates a chemical imbalance in the brain is a mistake. It is an idea concocted out thin air. Brain issues do derive from chemical problems. The fraud is the claim that an anti-depressant or anti-psychotic fixes the cause of the problem. Minds can be healed by improving nutrition and metabolism, but not by administering a drug. Mist drugs create their own dependence, and over time destroy the brain, resulting in traumatic injury.
I probably wouldn't care if a therapist was LGB (definitely not "T") but even with LGB - why would a client need to know? I think therapists should keep their personal lives to themselves. I would certainly stay away from the ones that announce their sexual orientation to the clients / on their website.
I find it hard to believe that the harm they cause to parents isn’t specifically quoted as a factor in desistance. It is as if our pain meant nothing
OF COURSE, THE DUTCH, MISERY LOVES COMPANY
Netherlands. Why I am not surprised?! A country that has women in windows selling their bodies and calling it "freedom". I am being there and saw it with my own eyes, the surprising thing or not, it is that the women don't look Dutch at all, the most are pretty Asians, I would dare to say that the only white I saw was Eastern European looking (I travel a lot so I can identify features and culture). Amsterdam is a sinkhole, the saddest place in Europe I am being in my life. Experimenting in children do that to a society, doing horrible things to humans transform a society. It is what we called a culture of Death where humans beings are discarded, we are just a bunch of cells put together randomly, the "useless eaters" as some character described us in a UN meeting. Dutch doctors are part of that culture and they think that is perfectly ok to give drugs to alter the natural human grow that will bring more problems to the already stressed kid, they think that affirming a mental condition will bring the kid OUT of their mental condition? Only psychos or crazies come up with these ideas. I suspect they lost it!
More important question: Where a kid come to this ideas?? Because we all have been children and that thought is not a "natural" thought, never met in my life a children who had any problem of "identity". That is the unlawful dilemma because UNICEF is very clear that children have to be protected at all costs so these experiments are illegal and unlawful specially in Netherlands where we have the Hague where the UN (UNICEF is part of that) met.
It is also true that during the teen agers years, in the modern world specifically, teenagers can suffer distress and be confused at times and have doubts about their identities or questioning anything so they started to separate psychologically from their parents and dressed in ridiculous outfits and that it what we call STAGES or A FASE. Parents used to monitor that from a distance without interferer too much but also NO encouraging it or affirming! That approach gives results and they grew over it, few were really stressed about identity and those have a condition that until not so long ago was called GENDER DYSPHORIA and they need some therapy and that is all. But the society is the problem now, we are not forward, we are backwards and science had became magick, science had became a tool of control, oppression and justification of horror experimental on humans. Science is the new religion, but science without God leads to this, not ethics, no moral, no heart, not soul. That we are able to do something doesn't mean we should. It is sad because real science is useful to understand the world in which we live in and take advance in positive ways of that knowledge, and experimentation on humans shouldn't be one of those ways, less of all to change nature.
As far as I know, it was the intention of the Dutch 'doctors' is to prevent the normal pubertal development of secondary sex anatomy, so that they could better perform their bizarre 'sex change' genital surgery when the poor child became an adult, and then believed that a surgeon could make a vagina on a man and a penis on a women. The Dutch and their followers have failed spectacularly (how do they now make their vagina from a 'blocked or paused' penis? Or a penis from a tiny clitoris - they must now use chunks of forearm or thigh instead? But the transgenderists still have remarkable power and reach, and are able to convince organizations like the Southern African HIV Clinicians Society, that all this is possible - and necessary! - and that they (the SAHCS) should be thier mouthpiece, and their vector for "gender affirming care". Children deserve better.
It shouldn't be a shock that many adolescents and young adults who once identified as trans ultimately desist and realize they're gay.
So-called gender nonconformity has always been common among gays. It was, and is, normal. But trans ideology subverts kids' ability to discover their identities and sexuality on their own time. Hence, the phenomenon of desistance. Better late than never, but at what price?
When I came out over 50 years ago, on the cusp of the women's liberation movement, I was surprised to learn that many lesbians divided themselves into "butches and femmes." Butches were more likely to be tomboys who grew up to be masculine in dress, mannerism and interests. Femmes were more traditionally feminine in style and interests. Lesbian couples paired up according to these labels. Tellingly, they referred to the butch/femme dyad as "role playing."
But with the influence of feminist lesbians who identified only as women, "role playing" became less important. Not that peoples' erotic preferences changed, but we relaxed with the roles and accepted the reality that all lesbians were women, whether butch or femme. We came to see sex-role stereotypes for what they were: costumes, which we were free to keep or shed. This led to an expansion of our ability to express ourselves and love ourselves as women, regardless of presentation.
One night at a party somebody wondered out loud if two butches could be lovers. Someone chimed in, "Now, that's REAL homosexuality!" and we all laughed. Underneath the joke was a profound truth.
The trans indoctrination imposed on kids deprives future gays of our right to grow up in the bodies we were born with. Despite the rhetoric of "inclusion," trans is homophobic. Not all gender-dysphoric kids grow up to be gay, and some don't have gender dysphoria but grow up to be gay. Still, the slogan, "STOP TRANSING GAY KIDS!" fits. Every child's path is unique.
The medical violence of "transgenderist" gender-enforcing homophobic conversion therapy is beyond the wildest imagings of even the most fervent anti-conversion therapy activist of previous decades.
The cruelty of targeting these kids with their own insecurities about being homosexual in a homophobic world really does boggle the mind.
What else could we expect from ideologues whose self-esteem rests on maiming other people's bodies in order to "cure their dysphoria"?
WPATH’s early (2012+) recommended studies demonstrated that up to 94% of children referred for gender dysphoria (77-94% in one set of studies and 73-88% in another) will grow out of their gender dysphoria naturally. The major difference between the rates was biological sex with the lower percentages being females. The big trans pushers know if they can't solidify children/adolescents/teens in their gender confusion early on with gender affirmation through social transitioning/counseling/therapy/drugs, they will reconcile their "gender identities" with their biological sex once they make it through puberty. That's what the most recent unbiased studies show. And that's why they target pre- and pubescent children. Evil through and through.
Hi Karole. Can you please send me the links to the WPATH recommended studies you mentioned? Thanks Jason
I apologize for taking so long to get back with you on this. I finally gave up going through my library of articles, studies, etc., and went to the SEGM.org site. The original article has the links to the studies. https://segm.org/early-social-gender-transition-persistence
"The following quotes from the Dutch clinicians encapsulated the Dutch concern with early SGT:
“As mentioned earlier, symptoms of GID [Gender Identity Disorder] at prepubertal ages decrease or even disappear in a considerable percentage of children (estimates range from 80–95%) [11,13]. Therefore, any intervention in childhood would seem premature and inappropriate." (Cohen-Kettenis et al., 2008, p. 1895)
"Because most gender dysphoric children will not remain gender dysphoric through adolescence (Wallien & Cohen-Kettenis, 2008), we recommend that young children not yet make a complete social transition (different clothing, a different given name, referring to a boy as “her” instead of “him”) before the very early stages of puberty." (de Vries and Cohen-Kettenis, 2012, p. 308)
"In making this recommendation, we aim to prevent youths with nonpersisting gender dysphoria from having to make a complex change back to the role of their natal gender (Steensma & Cohen-Kettenis, 2011). In a qualitative follow-up study, several youths indicated how difficult it was for them to realize that they no longer wanted to live in the role of the other gender and to make this clear to the people around them (Steensma, Biemond, et al., 2011). These children never even officially transitioned but just were considered by everyone around them as belonging to the other (non-natal) gender. One may wonder how difficult it would be for children living already for years in an environment where no one (except for the family) is aware of the child’s natal sex to make a change back." (de Vries and Cohen-Kettenis, 2012, p. 308)"
Here you can find 11 studies on persistence/desisting: https://cabrerae.substack.com/p/trans-identity-fixed-or-transient
I can't get to it today, but the information was part of a packet I put together in 2021 to share with our legislators pulled mostly from Bell vs Tavistock. The link to the lawsuit is https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Bell-v-Tavistock-Judgment.pdf The Cass Report did a deep-dive into all of the original studies, link https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20250310143633/https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/CassReview_Final.pdf.
I will try to track down which study it came from as soon as I can.
It is somewhat relieving that it would be unlikely for a grown child to find the pathway back to accepting their sex through the parent, unless the adult child does not recognize saps influence. At least in their own subjective estimation, they are more likely to find that they themselves are changing their definitions of male and female and they way they think about it.
I often think that the likely existence of ambivalence in them needs to be allowed to walk its own self through resolution. If your parental influence upon that ambivalence inspires pushback, I worry that it will strengthen adherence to the ideology and the choices.
I would be careful with this interpretation. I certainly don't think it's an invitation for parents to take a completely hands-off approach. Not all parental influence is "pressure". The study says that people are unlikely to desist due to PRESSURE from family. That doesn't mean that parents have no influence and that they can't affect their children's thought process. All the better if it is done in a subtle way that promotes a young person's own thought process. (Of course some young adults are completely closed off and don't give us a chance, but we gotta keep trying when we can).
I agree with the balance you've added. I was thinking of the sense of desperation that exists in wanting to do anything to stop the walk down that path. It's so heavy. I have an adult estranged child, so, I don't have influence so much any more. I spend a lot of time thinking about how it's up to him to pick out his path. Things could change. The only way back now is for him to make that choice.
The psychotherapist holds the key. If she coddles, affirms, and supports the victimization narrative , it gets ugly. If the therapist is LGBT herself, the likelihood of the above is high. Parents should do all they can to avoid LGBT therapists even if they present themselves as experts in this area.
Beware straight people pretending they know more than gay people about the lives of the gay kids who make up 2/3 of the victims of the "transgenderist" gender-enforcement lobby.
Lesbians have been fighting this lobby longer than any of us. They have more insight into and a greater stake in saving LGB kids from "transgenderist" homophobic medical conversion therapy than any straight therapist.
That has not been my experience. I have never met a reasonably balanced gay or lesbian therapist because they tend to be disordered people. I'd stay away from them. By the way, Psychology Today, the largest online advertiser, does not let therapists advertise themselves as heterosexual or heterosexual-focused, but a therapist can say his/her "lived experience" is gay or lesbian - or queer (basically actively mentally ill). That experience is supposed to provide them with some privileged knowledge per se, but I think that is bullshit. It usually means that therapist is more invested in increasing the numbers of LGBTQ people on the planet so they can feel better about themselves. A questioning kid is going to have far greater potential to go down the trans avenue with a LGBTQ therapist. They may eschew the trans pathway but end up in the gay or lesbian pathway. Ask your potential therapist if they are heterosexual. They will give you a straight answer.
I’m not religious, but I did hire a Christian counselor for help with my daughter. I thought it was safer but I was wrong. Even she got on board the trans train. Now she’s on testosterone doing everything she can to ‘prove’ her transness. Add that onto the anti-psychotics the quack psychiatrist put her on. I’m not sure I’ll ever get my daughter back and if I do it sure as hell won’t be the woman she could’ve been.
I’m just hoping we don’t end up as a worst case scenario….
This is so depressing. We can trust almost no one. I'm with you. All the counselors and psychiatrists just go merrily along with what my daughter tells them. She has been on SSRIS for almost seven years nonstop. I keep begging her to read newer info about the dangers of antidepressants but like with trans, she so firmly believes that for her, depression is a lifelong ailment rather than what it likely was: a difficult period that coincided with puberty, under which I was led to believe SSRIs were the answer and a short term solution. Instead she has created a dependence for herself on that along with her trans identity. I don't see her ever extracting herself short of having some medical catastrophe that forces her off of trans and antidepressants. She wouldn't know if she is actually gay, straight or whatever because she's been medically numbed for seven years, since age 13. She doesn't even know who she is not on medications or caught up in a contagion. Keeping your family in my prayers - we sound lik ewe are in similar boats.
I still recall talking to Christian therapists who nearly gasped when they heard of my trans kid because they have been warned off of "conversion therapy".
I am so sorry a therapist failed you. Of course the shrinks are basically all homicidal maniacs pushing dangerous junk. I am also not a fan of Christian counselors. A lot of them are primitive thinkers. The key us to find a mature, secular counselor that knows which way is up and which way is down. The interview is important. Sorry again you got a charlatan.
We tried them all. Interviewed them all before she saw them. They had grand promises and seemed interested in helping but they ended up manipulated by my daughter. It was like the more I tried to get professional help the more it hurt her.
We are in a dark age.
Most psychiatrists are quacks. The entire concept that prescribing a pill will fix a mental disorder like depression or autism has no foundation in science. The idea that a drug compensates or mitigates a chemical imbalance in the brain is a mistake. It is an idea concocted out thin air. Brain issues do derive from chemical problems. The fraud is the claim that an anti-depressant or anti-psychotic fixes the cause of the problem. Minds can be healed by improving nutrition and metabolism, but not by administering a drug. Mist drugs create their own dependence, and over time destroy the brain, resulting in traumatic injury.
Agree and none of these ‘professionals’ have even mentioned diet and exercise which is proven to help mental illness.
I probably wouldn't care if a therapist was LGB (definitely not "T") but even with LGB - why would a client need to know? I think therapists should keep their personal lives to themselves. I would certainly stay away from the ones that announce their sexual orientation to the clients / on their website.
For sure on the last point, but you might want to reconsider your first point.
In my case the point is moot since I don't trust 99% of therapists anyway.