Actually they are indoctrinated by an evil industry to believe a lie. They adopt a new and ridiculous language (boy/girl brain mishap!) to describe teenage /young adult angst. They can exit stage left and move on with their lives. They can snap out of it. That is the description people often use when describing any cult experience.
True, MG, but the pull of this one is greatly intensified by the celebratory culture around it and further concretized by any physical changes she initiates. I’ve heard very few stories of young women snapping out of it, even though “it” is clearly making them miserable and barely able to function. Maybe that despair is the barrier to healing: I wish I knew.
Nearly all successful attempts to get kids to "snap out of" this ideology involve taking the child out of their current social environment, off the internet & out into nature to help them get out of their heads & into their physical bodies. Apparently that can work for minors still under parental custody.
I agree. The cultural milieux is key. The culture is sick and recognizing it as such helps. As I understand snapping out of it as described in some cult literature I have read does not mean it is not hard. Just that there is a succinct moment when a member decides to exit. Something is often the trigger. As I understand the draw to question is always there and so reminding a person of their past and asking where they see themselves in the future can help them imagine something other than the desperate period of time in which their minds inhabit. Yes, their bodies are damaged often so no doubt suffering will be a part of healing. Isolation and independence from the milieux is needed and the biggest challenge today.
Not all are mentally ill. Most of the ROGD girls are just following a trend & trying to cope with the stresses of female adolescence. Getting immersed in online trans communities doesn’t help them pull out of the stall, & they can encourage a kind of LARPing of mental illness, though.
I suppose that depends on one's philosophical views of mental illness. There are (at least) a couple ways to look at it. One is that mental illness means a condition that is lifelong (or at least that persists for the remainder of life after onset, which may occur anywhere from childhood to later adulthood) and completely precludes normal functioning in society. On the other side, it could be seen like physical illness, as any deviation from the person's usual mood or functioning or from societal norms of psychosicial function. Much like physical illness can range from mild hay fever to the flu to contact dernatitis to end stage cancer to acute multi organ system failure etc.
Currently the definition in use by the medical system is in between the two but somewhat closer to the second. It's also worth noting that culture greatly influences who and what is considered "mentally ill". For example, in our culture, someone who says they converse with wild animals who tell them what will happen in the future would be considered pretty ill. There are cultures, though, that see certain forms of psychosis in a spiritual context. Those affected can even be revered as prophets, for example.
And there are conditions that only exist in particular cultures. For example, some Asian cultures (and possibly some Africam also, I can't recall) have long observed a condition in which men develop paranoid delusions that their genitals are receding into their bodies. They become obsessed with checking on their size, sometimes they will compulsively demand relatives check the size also or even pull on the member to try to prevent or reverse regression. There are numerous other examples of conditions seen only in particular cultures. So it does seem that demonstrations and manifestations of psychological distress do vary greatly but that they exist in one form or another everywhere.
The issue of mental illness is not settled. Certainly there is cult behavior in this. The ROGD thing is a cult, and persons are sucked in online due to love-bombing, and the permission to become mentally ill by prominent culture figures like Sam Smith and Ellen Page. It's also bound up with rebellion against parents.
I think the term "mentally ill" is becoming a go to explanation for every bad decision individuals make. People can be stupid, lazy, and desperate to get out of their troubles and sadness. All humans are like this at times. I think we need to distinguish between losing touch with reality, (mental illness) and making poor choices based on human frailty. Sometimes people are just dumb or evil.
I certainly agree with that. The invention of COUNTLESS "disease" excuses for poor choices is a modern curse. "Alcohol misuse condition" instead of calling someone a drunk loser. "Opioid use condition" instead of calling someone a junkie. All of these are excuses for more bad behavior. So I agree about that.
Helicopter parents here in the US actually want their children to have a "syndrome". They fight to get their kids educational IEP's, extra time to take standardized tests, extra 1:1 tutoring etc. The sad thing is that it takes resources away from kids who really have a learning disability. There are so many parents who want that ADD/ADHD diagnosis so that their kids can go on Adderall....kills their kid's soul but they stay focused on studying and the tests. It's awful!
I would like to do away with all the adjectives or descriptors (like neurodiverse or ASD) for normal functioning individuals who just have a difference in the way they think. Or interact socially. I think only very disturbed, nonfunctioning autistic people should be characterized in any special way. Because they need help..so they need to be in a group. But to me the neurodiverse label is really just another label for those who have certain personality types or learning styles. I wish we could all just widen our concept of normal and skip the labels.
Yeah, "neurodivergent" is another excuse label for "social misfit who will not learn better manners". I have a son with this issue, who is 33, has never to the best of my knowledge kissed a woman in throes of passion, and seems unwilling to learn how to do so.
Let’s be blunt: children who feel incongruent with their biological sex are mentally ill. They are not “being who they really are.”
They need psychiatric reconciliation with biological reality, not hormones, not surgery.
Things to consider; trauma, stress, attention seeking, binary thinking etc. none of these require hormones and surgery.
Actually they are indoctrinated by an evil industry to believe a lie. They adopt a new and ridiculous language (boy/girl brain mishap!) to describe teenage /young adult angst. They can exit stage left and move on with their lives. They can snap out of it. That is the description people often use when describing any cult experience.
True, MG, but the pull of this one is greatly intensified by the celebratory culture around it and further concretized by any physical changes she initiates. I’ve heard very few stories of young women snapping out of it, even though “it” is clearly making them miserable and barely able to function. Maybe that despair is the barrier to healing: I wish I knew.
Nearly all successful attempts to get kids to "snap out of" this ideology involve taking the child out of their current social environment, off the internet & out into nature to help them get out of their heads & into their physical bodies. Apparently that can work for minors still under parental custody.
I agree. The cultural milieux is key. The culture is sick and recognizing it as such helps. As I understand snapping out of it as described in some cult literature I have read does not mean it is not hard. Just that there is a succinct moment when a member decides to exit. Something is often the trigger. As I understand the draw to question is always there and so reminding a person of their past and asking where they see themselves in the future can help them imagine something other than the desperate period of time in which their minds inhabit. Yes, their bodies are damaged often so no doubt suffering will be a part of healing. Isolation and independence from the milieux is needed and the biggest challenge today.
Adding: I think this is an excellent case read that describes this need to isolate the players and how experts don't always have the answers in challenging and bizarre social contagions. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/magazine/teenage-girls-twitching-le-roy.html
Not all are mentally ill. Most of the ROGD girls are just following a trend & trying to cope with the stresses of female adolescence. Getting immersed in online trans communities doesn’t help them pull out of the stall, & they can encourage a kind of LARPing of mental illness, though.
I suppose that depends on one's philosophical views of mental illness. There are (at least) a couple ways to look at it. One is that mental illness means a condition that is lifelong (or at least that persists for the remainder of life after onset, which may occur anywhere from childhood to later adulthood) and completely precludes normal functioning in society. On the other side, it could be seen like physical illness, as any deviation from the person's usual mood or functioning or from societal norms of psychosicial function. Much like physical illness can range from mild hay fever to the flu to contact dernatitis to end stage cancer to acute multi organ system failure etc.
Currently the definition in use by the medical system is in between the two but somewhat closer to the second. It's also worth noting that culture greatly influences who and what is considered "mentally ill". For example, in our culture, someone who says they converse with wild animals who tell them what will happen in the future would be considered pretty ill. There are cultures, though, that see certain forms of psychosis in a spiritual context. Those affected can even be revered as prophets, for example.
And there are conditions that only exist in particular cultures. For example, some Asian cultures (and possibly some Africam also, I can't recall) have long observed a condition in which men develop paranoid delusions that their genitals are receding into their bodies. They become obsessed with checking on their size, sometimes they will compulsively demand relatives check the size also or even pull on the member to try to prevent or reverse regression. There are numerous other examples of conditions seen only in particular cultures. So it does seem that demonstrations and manifestations of psychological distress do vary greatly but that they exist in one form or another everywhere.
100%
The issue of mental illness is not settled. Certainly there is cult behavior in this. The ROGD thing is a cult, and persons are sucked in online due to love-bombing, and the permission to become mentally ill by prominent culture figures like Sam Smith and Ellen Page. It's also bound up with rebellion against parents.
I think the term "mentally ill" is becoming a go to explanation for every bad decision individuals make. People can be stupid, lazy, and desperate to get out of their troubles and sadness. All humans are like this at times. I think we need to distinguish between losing touch with reality, (mental illness) and making poor choices based on human frailty. Sometimes people are just dumb or evil.
I certainly agree with that. The invention of COUNTLESS "disease" excuses for poor choices is a modern curse. "Alcohol misuse condition" instead of calling someone a drunk loser. "Opioid use condition" instead of calling someone a junkie. All of these are excuses for more bad behavior. So I agree about that.
For example, “gender dysphoria,” a condition that does not exist
I prefer it to that simpering "neurodivergent" horseshit.
Helicopter parents here in the US actually want their children to have a "syndrome". They fight to get their kids educational IEP's, extra time to take standardized tests, extra 1:1 tutoring etc. The sad thing is that it takes resources away from kids who really have a learning disability. There are so many parents who want that ADD/ADHD diagnosis so that their kids can go on Adderall....kills their kid's soul but they stay focused on studying and the tests. It's awful!
I would like to do away with all the adjectives or descriptors (like neurodiverse or ASD) for normal functioning individuals who just have a difference in the way they think. Or interact socially. I think only very disturbed, nonfunctioning autistic people should be characterized in any special way. Because they need help..so they need to be in a group. But to me the neurodiverse label is really just another label for those who have certain personality types or learning styles. I wish we could all just widen our concept of normal and skip the labels.
Yeah, "neurodivergent" is another excuse label for "social misfit who will not learn better manners". I have a son with this issue, who is 33, has never to the best of my knowledge kissed a woman in throes of passion, and seems unwilling to learn how to do so.
It may be more challenging for him to learn better manners. but not impossible. And that may unlock a lot of happiness for him.