Your response is spot on. Your wording is perfect. I applaud you for putting yourself out there, knowing full well that you’d more than likely be banned. Any concerned parent that reads your post will take a moment to reflect on it.
Hopefully, it won’t be deleted before many read it.
I love your response and I’m so happy that you had the courage to share it with this poor parent. It is unconscionable to remove the voice of reason from an online forum.
So beautifully and lovingly stated. It’s what we have been saying all along to our daughter - now 24. She still may choose to medicalize, but I can live with myself and know I parented with love and care. Thank you!!
This is all sound advice when your child is a minor. Mine chose to transition at the age of 24, having spent the previous 2 years using the pronouns they, them. So (he) was around 22 when all of this started to the best of my knowledge. He moved to Washington State shortly after his 19th bday, and to my knowledge none of this was on the radar until he was living there - now lives in Portland Oregon.
Obviously an adult, so I have had no recourse over their decisions. I haven't seen him (now her) in 3 years and 3 months. There has been very minimal communication, sometimes not for months. I call and text every now and then and I am supportive and come from a place of love, always. Its not so much the transition that saddens me, (though I do worry mostly about the health complications now and in the future and of course the obvious motherly hurt and connection to having given birth to a beautiful baby boy..., but it is the missing of my adult child's life, the laughter, the hugs, dancing and long talks. The achievements uncelebrated, the not knowing where they live or who their friends are and on and on...Im sure you can all somewhat relate.
I've heard that Mama Bear Proud...the severance of ties to family of so many in this generation. Thank you for your prayers of peace and strength. The maternal bond is the strongest, I know it and I know he can feel my love, even 3000 miles away. ♥️
Grace and love is what I pray for also, Mommom. I live on the seacoast of NH. Maybe we can connect somehow and be of support to each other being that we live close to each other. Let me know if this is something you would be interested in.
I hope he read those words before the comments were surely deleted by aggressive moderation. They're the truth. For too long parents have been parenting out of fear - not just those with kids who are trans-identified either. The gentle parenting movement was a blight. We are not our children's friends; we are their guardians, protectors, and advocates. And as you said, sometimes the most loving thing is to say no. It's just unfortunate that there are so many social, professional, and interpersonal costs for doing so.
Yes, "Slowing down is not harm. Waiting is not denial. Caution is not a lack of love."
And "no" can be the best word to use at times. Our kids may realize the love behind "no" in the future when we go beyond this era and see all the falsehoods for what they are/were.
You have spoken every thought I’ve ever tried to speak to our child. Even at 18, the brain is still forming- and those medical decisions carry heavy, lifelong consequences and risks. Thank you for your eloquent words
Or, rather than the hypothetical of a child saying, “I want to use hard drugs,” what if a healthy weight child said, “I see myself as obese and know I am extremely overweight. I need to lose 30/50 pounds to be my authentic self.” Would a sane and loving parent affirm the delusion that the healthy weight child is obese and enable the child to use weight loss drugs to lose a significant portion of their body weight? “Gender identity” is an illusion. It is a fantasy. It is imagination of the worst sort. The only loving response of a mentally healthy parent is to say “no.” My two younger (adult) children decided as adults in their 30’s to alter their bodies through surgery and pharmaceuticals to become the opposite sexes (younger son and younger daughter). They are now in their 40’s. Neither speak to us (I am their mother and my husband is their stepfather) because we will not affirm their delusions. My younger daughter has not spoken to me since 2017. By then she was using testosterone and was taller and beefier, with a deep voice, facial hair, and a belligerent attitude. When I hugged her goodbye, I knew this person had killed my daughter and I would never see my daughter (as she was) again. We used to be very close. But, she is more stubborn than I am. Life has not kicked her in the teeth like it has me (cancer and the traumatic accidental death of my dad). My younger son stopped talking to me last year when I sent him a photo album, one of four that I made for each of my kids from photos my mother had saved and their baby and school photos. I happened to mention what a handsome man he had been. That, with the photos proving he was born and lived as a man for the first 40 years of his life. I am excommunicated from both of their lives and the lives of their children (which is the worst). Yet, I will not acquiesce and enable their choices like their father, who will do or say anything to continue his relationship with his grandchildren. To me, that goes into the category of “what is the price of your integrity?” Like the old joke, “Madam, we have already established what you are; we are now just haggling over the price.”
I’m sorry your kids are caught up in this. Lots of kids have estranged themselves from loving parents. We are all waiting for them to hit bottom and come back.
We have to be prepared that they may never “hit rock bottom” and come back. The “sink cost fallacy” is alive and well in this community. The more body alterations one has done, the less able some of these people are to acknowledge their own mistakes and culpability in the permanent mutilations of their bodies. Mine did it when they were adults. I think a lot of the desisters are ones who transitioned as teens and now as young adults regret it. Mine were in their 30’s when they transitioned and removed body parts (and my son’s case, also added body parts). They are entirely responsible. They may feel that they have invested too much to go back and admit they made a mistake, and the cost to go back is too high - it would mean removing fake breasts and living with no testicles (for my son), and living with a permanent low voice and facial hair, along with a flat chest and enhanced muscle structure that is not female (my daughter). Better to keep riding the mutilated horse, even if it is now obvious that it is false and ridiculous. I can’t even imagine the level of cognitive dissonance it takes for them to look at themselves in the mirror every day. I have body parts and things about my body I am not thrilled with, but part of becoming a mentally healthy adult is accepting that which we cannot change.
To us, on this substack, it of course makes sense. I am so curious about the speed at which you were banned & if you had any kind of warning or pushback & if the author of the post had time to read or respond? The ‘true believers’ fascinate me. Their conviction that we wish to deny care
Unfortunately, the true believers are not only closed minded on the issue of gender ideology, they are the same way on woke dogma in general. In their fictional world there is always some group of Victims whose Voices are being silenced, and a group of Oppressors who are doing the silencing, which they label "Genocide." In reality, the true believers are the ones who do those things to anyone who disagrees with their cultic beliefs. This behavior is called "authoritarian aggression" by social psychologists.
A recent book on the subject by psychologist Luke Conway, "Liberal Bullies," reports on what he has learned about authoritarianism aggression enacted by woke leftists. Conway is himself a liberal who goes to great pains in the introduction of the book to document his history of support for liberal causes, and discloses his own painful struggle to leave his professional association when it was taken over by the true believers.
Interesting. Most of my family are very nice people, I wouldn’t call them aggressive. They are non confrontational & quietly disagree, politely acknowledging how difficult it must be. But underneath it all lies pity & moral superiority
That kind of “niceness” is passive aggression, which is a fundamentally dishonest kind of manipulation. Where I live, this is called “Portland nice.” Apparently, the same behavior is called “Minnesota nice.” If it results in someone being marginalized and excluded from groups it is authoritarian behavior as well as attitude.
What Conway defines as authoritarian aggression is openly expressed hostility, like forcing dissenters out of groups and organizations, going off on anyone who disagree with you, calling them “transphobic bigots,” “racists” and so on, seeking to destroy their livelihoods and reputations. The passive aggressive people stand back when this is going on and withhold any real support for the targets of the abuse. When someone who is targeted seeks their support, they say, “It’s complicated.”
I was born, raised and spent all but 5 years in MN. I wonder if they are similar. MN nice is being superficial nice. It’s very cliquey and family based.
Minneapolis has for many years been compared to Portland, mostly on the basis of both cities being “very liberal.” I have lived in Portland for 46 years, and loved both the physical and cultural environment here until about ten years ago. There was a massive influx of people from other states, especially California and New York, and the WWII generation was mostly gone. The concentration of fringe extremism escalated and liberalism became the pathological condition that dominates the city today. It isn’t family based here at all nor do cliques still exist, although they once did among the old, upper class families. The only cohesion in the culture here is around the woke religion.
I saw a post, the gist of which was, the “true believers” have no other option but to defend their position because to do otherwise would be to accept the grievous harm they’ve done to their own beloved child. Heartwrenching…
True, but there are people that don’t have kids that advocate in the same way. And I don’t mean the social justice warrior type or activists. Kind people. In my mind they are ideologically brainwashed but they think the same of me. It’s a lose lose either way, no one’s happy
This is wonderful advice. Any decent psychotherapist also recognizes the need to slow down so that a patient is able to think clearly before acting. If you are not getting that advice from your child's therapist get another one.
Your response is spot on. Your wording is perfect. I applaud you for putting yourself out there, knowing full well that you’d more than likely be banned. Any concerned parent that reads your post will take a moment to reflect on it.
Hopefully, it won’t be deleted before many read it.
Keep posting it wherever & whenever possible.
🩷🙏🕊️
I love your response and I’m so happy that you had the courage to share it with this poor parent. It is unconscionable to remove the voice of reason from an online forum.
So beautifully and lovingly stated. It’s what we have been saying all along to our daughter - now 24. She still may choose to medicalize, but I can live with myself and know I parented with love and care. Thank you!!
This is all sound advice when your child is a minor. Mine chose to transition at the age of 24, having spent the previous 2 years using the pronouns they, them. So (he) was around 22 when all of this started to the best of my knowledge. He moved to Washington State shortly after his 19th bday, and to my knowledge none of this was on the radar until he was living there - now lives in Portland Oregon.
Obviously an adult, so I have had no recourse over their decisions. I haven't seen him (now her) in 3 years and 3 months. There has been very minimal communication, sometimes not for months. I call and text every now and then and I am supportive and come from a place of love, always. Its not so much the transition that saddens me, (though I do worry mostly about the health complications now and in the future and of course the obvious motherly hurt and connection to having given birth to a beautiful baby boy..., but it is the missing of my adult child's life, the laughter, the hugs, dancing and long talks. The achievements uncelebrated, the not knowing where they live or who their friends are and on and on...Im sure you can all somewhat relate.
Lots of parents are in your situation too. We are waiting for them to “hit bottom” and return. I hope your son reaches out to you. Peace and strength.
I've heard that Mama Bear Proud...the severance of ties to family of so many in this generation. Thank you for your prayers of peace and strength. The maternal bond is the strongest, I know it and I know he can feel my love, even 3000 miles away. ♥️
Grace and love is what I pray for also, Mommom. I live on the seacoast of NH. Maybe we can connect somehow and be of support to each other being that we live close to each other. Let me know if this is something you would be interested in.
Many blessings to you and your son.
I hope he read those words before the comments were surely deleted by aggressive moderation. They're the truth. For too long parents have been parenting out of fear - not just those with kids who are trans-identified either. The gentle parenting movement was a blight. We are not our children's friends; we are their guardians, protectors, and advocates. And as you said, sometimes the most loving thing is to say no. It's just unfortunate that there are so many social, professional, and interpersonal costs for doing so.
Yes, "Slowing down is not harm. Waiting is not denial. Caution is not a lack of love."
And "no" can be the best word to use at times. Our kids may realize the love behind "no" in the future when we go beyond this era and see all the falsehoods for what they are/were.
You have spoken every thought I’ve ever tried to speak to our child. Even at 18, the brain is still forming- and those medical decisions carry heavy, lifelong consequences and risks. Thank you for your eloquent words
Or, rather than the hypothetical of a child saying, “I want to use hard drugs,” what if a healthy weight child said, “I see myself as obese and know I am extremely overweight. I need to lose 30/50 pounds to be my authentic self.” Would a sane and loving parent affirm the delusion that the healthy weight child is obese and enable the child to use weight loss drugs to lose a significant portion of their body weight? “Gender identity” is an illusion. It is a fantasy. It is imagination of the worst sort. The only loving response of a mentally healthy parent is to say “no.” My two younger (adult) children decided as adults in their 30’s to alter their bodies through surgery and pharmaceuticals to become the opposite sexes (younger son and younger daughter). They are now in their 40’s. Neither speak to us (I am their mother and my husband is their stepfather) because we will not affirm their delusions. My younger daughter has not spoken to me since 2017. By then she was using testosterone and was taller and beefier, with a deep voice, facial hair, and a belligerent attitude. When I hugged her goodbye, I knew this person had killed my daughter and I would never see my daughter (as she was) again. We used to be very close. But, she is more stubborn than I am. Life has not kicked her in the teeth like it has me (cancer and the traumatic accidental death of my dad). My younger son stopped talking to me last year when I sent him a photo album, one of four that I made for each of my kids from photos my mother had saved and their baby and school photos. I happened to mention what a handsome man he had been. That, with the photos proving he was born and lived as a man for the first 40 years of his life. I am excommunicated from both of their lives and the lives of their children (which is the worst). Yet, I will not acquiesce and enable their choices like their father, who will do or say anything to continue his relationship with his grandchildren. To me, that goes into the category of “what is the price of your integrity?” Like the old joke, “Madam, we have already established what you are; we are now just haggling over the price.”
I’m sorry your kids are caught up in this. Lots of kids have estranged themselves from loving parents. We are all waiting for them to hit bottom and come back.
We have to be prepared that they may never “hit rock bottom” and come back. The “sink cost fallacy” is alive and well in this community. The more body alterations one has done, the less able some of these people are to acknowledge their own mistakes and culpability in the permanent mutilations of their bodies. Mine did it when they were adults. I think a lot of the desisters are ones who transitioned as teens and now as young adults regret it. Mine were in their 30’s when they transitioned and removed body parts (and my son’s case, also added body parts). They are entirely responsible. They may feel that they have invested too much to go back and admit they made a mistake, and the cost to go back is too high - it would mean removing fake breasts and living with no testicles (for my son), and living with a permanent low voice and facial hair, along with a flat chest and enhanced muscle structure that is not female (my daughter). Better to keep riding the mutilated horse, even if it is now obvious that it is false and ridiculous. I can’t even imagine the level of cognitive dissonance it takes for them to look at themselves in the mirror every day. I have body parts and things about my body I am not thrilled with, but part of becoming a mentally healthy adult is accepting that which we cannot change.
You may have been banned from the group, but to that parent, your voice may prove to be life saving. He may never hear that opinion elsewhere.
That's what I was thinking: this OP might have just saved that child's life.
Thank you for your willingness to respond to these parents with such reason. Grateful for your words. I hope these parents heard you.
Thanks for speaking up. I hope your words got through.
To us, on this substack, it of course makes sense. I am so curious about the speed at which you were banned & if you had any kind of warning or pushback & if the author of the post had time to read or respond? The ‘true believers’ fascinate me. Their conviction that we wish to deny care
I’m curious too!
Unfortunately, the true believers are not only closed minded on the issue of gender ideology, they are the same way on woke dogma in general. In their fictional world there is always some group of Victims whose Voices are being silenced, and a group of Oppressors who are doing the silencing, which they label "Genocide." In reality, the true believers are the ones who do those things to anyone who disagrees with their cultic beliefs. This behavior is called "authoritarian aggression" by social psychologists.
A recent book on the subject by psychologist Luke Conway, "Liberal Bullies," reports on what he has learned about authoritarianism aggression enacted by woke leftists. Conway is himself a liberal who goes to great pains in the introduction of the book to document his history of support for liberal causes, and discloses his own painful struggle to leave his professional association when it was taken over by the true believers.
Interesting. Most of my family are very nice people, I wouldn’t call them aggressive. They are non confrontational & quietly disagree, politely acknowledging how difficult it must be. But underneath it all lies pity & moral superiority
That kind of “niceness” is passive aggression, which is a fundamentally dishonest kind of manipulation. Where I live, this is called “Portland nice.” Apparently, the same behavior is called “Minnesota nice.” If it results in someone being marginalized and excluded from groups it is authoritarian behavior as well as attitude.
What Conway defines as authoritarian aggression is openly expressed hostility, like forcing dissenters out of groups and organizations, going off on anyone who disagree with you, calling them “transphobic bigots,” “racists” and so on, seeking to destroy their livelihoods and reputations. The passive aggressive people stand back when this is going on and withhold any real support for the targets of the abuse. When someone who is targeted seeks their support, they say, “It’s complicated.”
I was born, raised and spent all but 5 years in MN. I wonder if they are similar. MN nice is being superficial nice. It’s very cliquey and family based.
Minneapolis has for many years been compared to Portland, mostly on the basis of both cities being “very liberal.” I have lived in Portland for 46 years, and loved both the physical and cultural environment here until about ten years ago. There was a massive influx of people from other states, especially California and New York, and the WWII generation was mostly gone. The concentration of fringe extremism escalated and liberalism became the pathological condition that dominates the city today. It isn’t family based here at all nor do cliques still exist, although they once did among the old, upper class families. The only cohesion in the culture here is around the woke religion.
Have you watched Portlandia? Is that more documentary than mockumentary?
…sigh…😞
You are not alone, no matter how much your family and others have made you feel that way.
I saw a post, the gist of which was, the “true believers” have no other option but to defend their position because to do otherwise would be to accept the grievous harm they’ve done to their own beloved child. Heartwrenching…
True, but there are people that don’t have kids that advocate in the same way. And I don’t mean the social justice warrior type or activists. Kind people. In my mind they are ideologically brainwashed but they think the same of me. It’s a lose lose either way, no one’s happy
This is wonderful advice. Any decent psychotherapist also recognizes the need to slow down so that a patient is able to think clearly before acting. If you are not getting that advice from your child's therapist get another one.
So beautifully said.
I am angry with the confidence and arrogance of those who think they are absolutely right to affirm.
If they have not done a proper differential assessment before affirming they have failed at their jobs.