Going no contact is what conflict avoidant people do. I look back on my life and confess that I went no contact with my own mother. I still replied to letters. I was not rude. I just needed space to grow up. My own daughter is doing the same but now “going no contact” means not replying to emails, texts, messages, Skype, Whattsapp, phone calls, etc. I must try writing a letter? She cut me off when she abandoned her identity as my daughter. She was trying to be her father’s son. Lately she has gone no contact with him also. This conflict avoidance is part of her autism. I do not blame her. Life is too difficult.
I have mixed feelings on this one. Definitely parents need to own up to ways they’ve hurt or neglected their children. I’ve been on the side of being the child whose parent won’t admit, face or help mend what they’ve done. That was incredibly painful. However, now I’m on the parent side, not affirming a trans identity, while still trying to support my child. I’m sure it hurts, but I know this lifestyle is damaging her, and I can’t go along with it. Emotions are complex 🤷🏻♀️
But parents aren't putting any responsibility squarely on the children. Parents are basically bowing down to every whim and need of the current narcisstic child and when that same child waltzes out the home with no explanation or contact, parents run after children begging for their return it is not the parents looking at the children with a pointed finger down the nose at the child but the other way round. It is the child who covertly holds the parent hostage with their list of emotional abuse taken completely out of context and thrown in the faces of the very people who love them no matter what. The only people willing to tell the selfish little brats the truth, while the rest of the world gaslight and enables their spoilt, first world, middle-class entitled added that they are the bees k res and deserve nothing more than a life with zero conflict, parents who give you your hearts deepest desires, a life with no struggle and therefore no growth and while you're at it, go and either botox or maim your body in search of flawless perfection which only exists in your head.
Thats what the world is saying, but we your parents are saying, you ARE good enough just as you are. It may not be perfect, but this is who you are and it is better to deal with it than run from it.
I fervently wish for a succinct set of rebuttal points to the basic idea that the response to conflict or discomfort in a relationship w a parent is to cut them off. Surely, surely they exist. For example, if conflict avoidance is a basic principle of your life, how does that work-with your landlord, your co-workers, your neighbors, etc? Please— experts on estrangement— let’s build a powerful pushback to this. I’m speaking btw as one who is also experiencing the heartbreak of many years of estrangement from a trans son.
I wish parents caught in this trans crisis were talked about more. You are held hostage to agree to terms but have no say in negotiations. It’s believe me or goodbye. Forget the name we spent so much time picking out that you threw away. It’s beyond cruel and my heart hurts for all of you.
I don't know how any of you parents cope with this awful situation and i pray for you all. The cruelty of these ideologies becomes more and more apparent every single day. It destroys the very humanity of its proponents and turns them into zombie like creatures willing to do the bidding of their masters ( the real demonic people behind it all ) They don't realise they are being lied to and manipulated by these ideologues for money and power !! This is truly evil. God Bless,all.🙏🙏🙏❤
I think this thread shouldn’t be used as if it is similar to a thread on estrangement over gender. As a therapist (gender exploratory, not affirming) I see there are many good reasons (apart from gender) that a child becomes estranged and it can take a long time for an adult child to be healed enough to have a relationship with parents who they were really wounded by.
As an adult child of an abusive parent having people be supportive of me not feeling responsible for, or have a relationship with that parent was what allowed me to feel my own feelings instead of theirs, and start to heal. (I am low, not “no contact.” I think it works for both of us. ) I love that parent but my nervous system doesn’t trust them and maybe never will.
The other parent did not protect me from their spouse. This parent has been the model (in many ways) of how to heal your relationship with an adult child. It was never too many times if I needed to talk about it. They were appropriately apologetic. They went to therapy and healed themselves. (My nervous system doesn’t always feel safe with them either but I am happy to be in as much contact with them as our lives allow.)
I think the poster sounds as if they might be saying a child owes their parent a relationship and is drawing an equivalency between what a parent and a child feels. And what a parent owes and what a child owes. In my view a parent has the responsibility in the relationship and the child either chooses or doesn’t choice to have a relationship with them, but should be in total freedom about that. Allowing that freedom and not blaming them is how you might get it back.
In the case of gender ideology I understand it is often not related to the parent or quality of the relationship. I understand that the movement of supporting hurt adult children in choosing their relationship has paved a road for splitting kids with gender issues from their parents. But it is important to not conflate the two things, and to suggest estrangement is never the best, or a healthy choice for a person.
Sexual abuse, no. Physical abuse, Yes. No parent is one dimensional, and many of us had parents who came up in very different milieu. Imagine that. I confronted my father for beating me was I was 24, he listened respectfully, my mother later apologized in writing for not protecting me. I would never punish others so cruelly, what would that accomplish? I matured and chose strength, understanding and forgiveness.
It isn’t always, or even often about punishment though. “Punishing” is often something someone feels if someone else puts boundaries up they don’t like. On the other hand there can be a punishing quality to anger at times. And obviously people don’t always express their anger in the best ways.
In your case your parents truelly owned their part and that allowed you to move past it. What if they hadn't? Do you still owe them a relationship?
Actually, I forgive them both long before the letter from my mom. My father never admitted anything, he listened. His life was far harder, full of worse abuse than ours. Alcoholism played a role.
I never felt limited or a victim, in fact, the whole experience made me wiser and stronger. Ironically, that was part of our father intention with his harsh approach, anti-fragile one might say.
I chose to parent completely differently, one of my sons is estranged, due to a controlling spouse.
It is definitely great when the healing is able to happen. A lot of things have to be in place for that. I am guessing your parents love you very much and visa versa. I am happy for you, and sorry to hear about the estrangement and controlling spouse!!
thanks, I hope you didn't miss my point, generational differences in creating fragile children. The concept of "healing" is too vague an idea for me to align with. At 17, I went to the police after a particularly bad beating, I established control over his raging. Empowerment was key.
Estrangement is the worse pain ever, there is always an element of punishing parents, justly or unjustly.
Of course not. Although if there can be healing through admission, atonement and forgiveness, it is better than estrangement. That’s why I said true victims of abuse are getting lost in a sea of self diagnosed Reddit abused adult children. My point is we have to clearly define abuse and yes boundaries and NC may be needed in those cases. All relationships require efforts from all parties involved. It can’t be solely on parents. Are adult kids obligated to have relationships with their parents? Technically no but how sad to reject a foundation of support and love. Plus I think it’s dangerous for society. And I’m not talking about truly abused kids. There is alot of messaging on social media to cut off parents with no guard rails if they hurt your feelings. Resiliency in this young adult generation is the exception now because everything centers around feelings. That is what many of us are dealing with. We need understanding and empathy as well. I’m not wired to not be in contact with my children. No where in my immediate family do we have that. Estrangement is expanding past the gender issue.
Wow! So the child bears no responsibility in the relationship? Their words or actions have no accountability? This is the bigger problem. This generation of adult children continue to get the messaging from the great Reddit and therapists that nothing is their fault. And the true victims of abuse get lost in a sea of self diagnosed victims. My child tries to compare me reading her diary at the age of 16 with being raped. And no one calls her out for it. There are more and more parents being left shellshocked and heartbroken with little dialogue or opportunity to work together to heal because young adults are being told they don’t owe their parents anything. And we now have the most anxious generation of young adults ever. I wonder why? Although my young adult isn’t struggling with gender issues there are threads that are very similar in the harshness towards us and the complete lack of empathy. So let me fix what you said. There are consequences for both parents and children in both words and actions. This creates trust issues on both sides that will need help and boundaries to heal relationships.
I didn’t say an adult child has no accountability for their actions. I do believe they do not have a responsibility to have a relationship with a parent. I think there are forces at work that are dividing families and I am against those. I am simply trying to make a distinction for the adult children who were truly harmed by their parents.
Sorry. I see you giving cover and affirmation to a population of young adult toddlers who want to blame everyone else for problems that many have created in their own minds. Talk to social workers who have had to deal with children living in poverty and who had/have drug addicted parents and they will tell you that most of the children don't want to leave their troubled parents to enter foster care. Those same children (as adults) still love and have feelings for their parents even though they didn't like their parent/s actions. For thousands of years people lived in familial clans and thrived.....through good and bad times......and human kind flourished. Why all of a sudden is the mantra to leave it all behind/blow it all up and find the "new, better you"?.....it sells a "product"! A psychological product with books and tapes and never ending "therapy" to keep some people employed while keeping the others in a psychological death spiral. It's just wrong!
MLisa, I 1000% agree with you. I havw thought about this so often... that in generations and tribes from ages before, respect and responsibility towards elders was correctly in place and it did NOT mess children up and give them trauma or a sense of entitlement and a right to abandon those who loved them, it gave them a sense of honour and belonging and the respect given to elders strengthened the tribe.
There are so many avenues to this atm. Psychology has become extremely toxic and is all about "self" and very rarely these days about the family care. I too have thought about children from truly horrific circumstances and how they still choose to be with their drug addict and negligent parent over a stranger, because the familial bond is crucial to human nature and a sense of self. The troubles we are born into help is strengthen. Helping pur parents as they age, brings us depth and teaches us to love unconditionally. We ALL know pur own parents annoy the hell out of us. It is normal to f9nd our parents annoying, it is how and why we separate and fly from the nest and how we self actualize BUT we are supposed to go out on our own and find ourselves, without actually cutting off our life ssource. We are to live pur lives separate from our parents BUT still connected.
In today's self help and actually, self-idolisation, psychology tells us to cut out anything that might be toxic and everything is about "healthy boundaries" and "live your best life now". It is self- serving, self-worshipping, entitled, vain, sad and lonely.
There will be a price to pay as it is not the way any culture has EVER EVER lived before. And whenever humans veer off the natural path of life and they way it should be, there is a price that will be paid. These children WILL become narcissists and narcissists die lonely. Psychology have not helped them, they have enabled extremely toxic behaviour and sabotaged the family relationship, which is tantamount to a healthy ssociety.
Even the person who you are replying to, who admits to being a psychologist, mentions why sometimes estrangement is good. That goes without saying, OBVIOUSLY sometimes certain steps are good. But that is not what is happening in society. Psychology has slightly shifted how it sees human mind and subtly veered from a family holistic approach to a self centered, egomaniacal approach.
Basically, psychology and social media together are grooming people to be the best little dictators the world has seen, all the while blaming EVERYONE ELSE for their problems and never accepting responsibility and carving a new road Where family is scrapped to the side of the road and seen as nothing more than an a shame and an inconvenience and NORMALLY enable by young psychologists themswlvea who have never yet even parented someone.
So I concur and I don'time where this will end for society. Family is the LAST sanctuary and institution that the government cannot own, and when it does, society will be ruined.
attributions for estrangement, including family members’ turning the child against them
(e.g., child’s other biological parent or adult child’s romantic partner) or children’s
struggles with mental illness and/or addiction. Mothers were less likely to endorse
internal attributions for estrangement compared with external attributions or to validate
their children’s complaints about abuse or neglect.”
Schoppe-Sullivan, S., Coleman, J., Wang, J., and Yan J. J. (2023) Mothers' attributions for estrangement from their adult children. Couple and Family Psychology, Vol. 12, No. 3, 146-154.
My son came over 5 years ago and explained in plain English his wife was pressuring him to stop talking with his family. I took care of his feelings in that long afternoon discussion. 6 mths later he cut everyone out of his life. No one in the extended family/friends recognizes his behavior. So yes, spousal pressure is a huge contributor to estrangement as Coleman knows well. When I first contacted him, his exact words, "it's common." I have spoken with many fellow parents, same script played out. Divorce parents who play power games is considered parental alienation.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it sounds like you have swallowed the wrong Kool Aid. You are part of the problem as your wording sounds like it is directly out of the self help industry itself.
My point is that sometimes there is a case for estrangement and low or no contact. Plenty of parents have harmed their children and children have a right to heal. Parents don’t have a right to a relationship with their children. The poster conflates estrangement with estrangement over gender ideology. I am only pointing out sometimes estrangement is justified. I understand that is not a message that is often not true or welcome or relevant here, but I felt it was important to point out there is a difference between a truly justified estrangement vs an estrangement based on a gender cult.
My daughter from whom I'm not estranged says such things directly to my face in occasional outbursts while my son is in the trans cult and has no contact so I don't know if he justifies himself in this way or why he's doing it. I torment myself - is it all my fault ? - but I know, really, this is nothing to do with anything I've done or not done. It's a global cultural trend that's swept through and broken my heart, destroyed our life and many others, affecting all kinds and classes of families. It's the new normal. Young mothers-to-be don't want their mothers around, young families don't want their parents visiting. Right up to total hatred and estrangement. I never lie about it when people ask about my children - I tell the the truth and it's amazing how many respond with stories of their own which they would never normally reveal.
It's like these comments on Reddit are even weaponized against parents. They have all of the possible scenarios covered and give the proper response to stay in agreement with the cult. All of the responses are purely narcissistic and sociopathic. There is no where for these kids to go where they can hear healthy, sensible, truthful, and non-self serving information. Astonishing.
Wow. That was really something to read. The sad part is, I can absolutely imagine adult estranged children thinking and writing this way, all the while feeling totally justified and empowered by cutting their parents out of their lives. They are like grown adult toddlers, with no awareness of the world around them outside of their narrow-mindedness, due really to the society-wide brain-washing that has become an unescapable beast. I am one of those parents. It is so very difficult as many (all) of you would know. I think I am approaching the point of realising I need to take care of me. I will always love my daughter of course, but I think I need to love me more now, so that I can be a healthy human being if or when she ever returns. It is all very sad. Thank you for posting
Yes we have to mourn it and then sold care and try to find happiness. It’s like a death but you know they are alive so you can’t grieve it like a death. Forgive her for she knows not what she is doing. Remember who you were before kids. Pour into yourself and value those that value you. And leave the door open but don’t stand waiting for her to walk through.
One thing I find uniquely challenging is having a child go NC with one parent (me) and full contact with the other (hubby). It can cause triangulation and other marital stress. It is just plain awkward and also painful.
Just happened to us too! No contact with the affirming father! Maybe that is good? I dare not ask what is going on. I guess her health is deteriorating. That is inevitable after seven years of testosterone plus antidepressant. What next! Detransition I hope
That sounds very difficult, particularly if you and your husband are still together (sounds like and hoping you are). I was divorced way before any of this came about, but now I am the 'bad' parent who is cut off, and my ex is the 'good' affirming parent. I wish you all the best moving forward. I'm glad you recognise the triangulation aspect. All the best xx
It is pretty clear that we have generation of indoctrinated children (don't deserve the title of adult) who have bought into all this BS. I think they not self-aware enough to even see that their ideas are wrong even though the evidence is there to look at. Look at the young moms (why is it that moms are always proclaiming?) on TikTok proclaiming their X year old is trans? I used to like to watch my mom cook and help bake cookies. I got a play stove one birthday or Christmas which I "cooked on." Had my parents not been from the greatest generation, I would probably be a eunuch in drag today. At some point we are going to stop this insanity and bring all those who abetted this nightmare to justice. Nothing short of a global Nuremberg Trial is needed.
Arriving on the very day of my long-estranged firstborn's 31st birthday, this excellent insight into the cult of estrangment from the adult-child's perspective could not have been more timely. Thank you. His father (my husband) is sending the birthday email this time. Usually I do it, but I couldn't face the sixth one after five were sent and unanswered, even one offering him $10,000 ($US 6,000) for his 30th, as well as the Xmas ones and a few others throughout the year. I'm not proud of the attempted bribe, but we were desperate. Indeed I almost envy some of you having the tether of your child needing you for money. But to him I am one of those 'narcisistic' mothers who didn't have to do anything actually wrong to be deemed unloving and estranged with zero contact. In our case this was not trans-related, except that his younger sister is a very vocal trans ally and I am a very vocal Terf and they are in contact (she has estranged me too, now). But for him it was more his computer-based socialising, from teenagehood on, with young male Incel culture where mother and women-blaming is even more vicious than it is in the trans space, though the two seem to have largely merged now. Reddit has a lot to answer for with the rise of both of these anti-parent cults. But thank you for this post and for the many relateable, heartrending comments too. You all helped me deal with the pain that comes every year on the anniversary of the day I became a mother.
This is exactly what the pro-Hamas protesters at Columbia demanded, isn’t it? “Cater hot food to us while we occupy a university building!” What a bunch of entitled babies!
Good thing we didn’t send them out to get their heads cracked in the Civil Rights movement, or to sit at the lunch counters!
Well stated.
Going no contact is what conflict avoidant people do. I look back on my life and confess that I went no contact with my own mother. I still replied to letters. I was not rude. I just needed space to grow up. My own daughter is doing the same but now “going no contact” means not replying to emails, texts, messages, Skype, Whattsapp, phone calls, etc. I must try writing a letter? She cut me off when she abandoned her identity as my daughter. She was trying to be her father’s son. Lately she has gone no contact with him also. This conflict avoidance is part of her autism. I do not blame her. Life is too difficult.
She feels violated by you reading her diary, and you got pedantic about how being violated can mean being raped, ergo you're the real victim here.
Yes?
I have mixed feelings on this one. Definitely parents need to own up to ways they’ve hurt or neglected their children. I’ve been on the side of being the child whose parent won’t admit, face or help mend what they’ve done. That was incredibly painful. However, now I’m on the parent side, not affirming a trans identity, while still trying to support my child. I’m sure it hurts, but I know this lifestyle is damaging her, and I can’t go along with it. Emotions are complex 🤷🏻♀️
You lost me at “not affirming a trans identity.” That is absolutely what you must do next if you wish to have a relationship with your daughter.
>Can you imagine parents putting responsibility for any difficulties in the parent/child relationship squarely on the children?
Yes, especially among estranged parents. Plenty of assholery on both sides of this one.
But parents aren't putting any responsibility squarely on the children. Parents are basically bowing down to every whim and need of the current narcisstic child and when that same child waltzes out the home with no explanation or contact, parents run after children begging for their return it is not the parents looking at the children with a pointed finger down the nose at the child but the other way round. It is the child who covertly holds the parent hostage with their list of emotional abuse taken completely out of context and thrown in the faces of the very people who love them no matter what. The only people willing to tell the selfish little brats the truth, while the rest of the world gaslight and enables their spoilt, first world, middle-class entitled added that they are the bees k res and deserve nothing more than a life with zero conflict, parents who give you your hearts deepest desires, a life with no struggle and therefore no growth and while you're at it, go and either botox or maim your body in search of flawless perfection which only exists in your head.
Thats what the world is saying, but we your parents are saying, you ARE good enough just as you are. It may not be perfect, but this is who you are and it is better to deal with it than run from it.
I fervently wish for a succinct set of rebuttal points to the basic idea that the response to conflict or discomfort in a relationship w a parent is to cut them off. Surely, surely they exist. For example, if conflict avoidance is a basic principle of your life, how does that work-with your landlord, your co-workers, your neighbors, etc? Please— experts on estrangement— let’s build a powerful pushback to this. I’m speaking btw as one who is also experiencing the heartbreak of many years of estrangement from a trans son.
I wish parents caught in this trans crisis were talked about more. You are held hostage to agree to terms but have no say in negotiations. It’s believe me or goodbye. Forget the name we spent so much time picking out that you threw away. It’s beyond cruel and my heart hurts for all of you.
I don't know how any of you parents cope with this awful situation and i pray for you all. The cruelty of these ideologies becomes more and more apparent every single day. It destroys the very humanity of its proponents and turns them into zombie like creatures willing to do the bidding of their masters ( the real demonic people behind it all ) They don't realise they are being lied to and manipulated by these ideologues for money and power !! This is truly evil. God Bless,all.🙏🙏🙏❤
I think this thread shouldn’t be used as if it is similar to a thread on estrangement over gender. As a therapist (gender exploratory, not affirming) I see there are many good reasons (apart from gender) that a child becomes estranged and it can take a long time for an adult child to be healed enough to have a relationship with parents who they were really wounded by.
As an adult child of an abusive parent having people be supportive of me not feeling responsible for, or have a relationship with that parent was what allowed me to feel my own feelings instead of theirs, and start to heal. (I am low, not “no contact.” I think it works for both of us. ) I love that parent but my nervous system doesn’t trust them and maybe never will.
The other parent did not protect me from their spouse. This parent has been the model (in many ways) of how to heal your relationship with an adult child. It was never too many times if I needed to talk about it. They were appropriately apologetic. They went to therapy and healed themselves. (My nervous system doesn’t always feel safe with them either but I am happy to be in as much contact with them as our lives allow.)
I think the poster sounds as if they might be saying a child owes their parent a relationship and is drawing an equivalency between what a parent and a child feels. And what a parent owes and what a child owes. In my view a parent has the responsibility in the relationship and the child either chooses or doesn’t choice to have a relationship with them, but should be in total freedom about that. Allowing that freedom and not blaming them is how you might get it back.
In the case of gender ideology I understand it is often not related to the parent or quality of the relationship. I understand that the movement of supporting hurt adult children in choosing their relationship has paved a road for splitting kids with gender issues from their parents. But it is important to not conflate the two things, and to suggest estrangement is never the best, or a healthy choice for a person.
Do you think an child who was abused by their parent owes that parent a relationship?
Sexual abuse, no. Physical abuse, Yes. No parent is one dimensional, and many of us had parents who came up in very different milieu. Imagine that. I confronted my father for beating me was I was 24, he listened respectfully, my mother later apologized in writing for not protecting me. I would never punish others so cruelly, what would that accomplish? I matured and chose strength, understanding and forgiveness.
It isn’t always, or even often about punishment though. “Punishing” is often something someone feels if someone else puts boundaries up they don’t like. On the other hand there can be a punishing quality to anger at times. And obviously people don’t always express their anger in the best ways.
In your case your parents truelly owned their part and that allowed you to move past it. What if they hadn't? Do you still owe them a relationship?
Actually, I forgive them both long before the letter from my mom. My father never admitted anything, he listened. His life was far harder, full of worse abuse than ours. Alcoholism played a role.
I never felt limited or a victim, in fact, the whole experience made me wiser and stronger. Ironically, that was part of our father intention with his harsh approach, anti-fragile one might say.
I chose to parent completely differently, one of my sons is estranged, due to a controlling spouse.
It is definitely great when the healing is able to happen. A lot of things have to be in place for that. I am guessing your parents love you very much and visa versa. I am happy for you, and sorry to hear about the estrangement and controlling spouse!!
thanks, I hope you didn't miss my point, generational differences in creating fragile children. The concept of "healing" is too vague an idea for me to align with. At 17, I went to the police after a particularly bad beating, I established control over his raging. Empowerment was key.
Estrangement is the worse pain ever, there is always an element of punishing parents, justly or unjustly.
Of course not. Although if there can be healing through admission, atonement and forgiveness, it is better than estrangement. That’s why I said true victims of abuse are getting lost in a sea of self diagnosed Reddit abused adult children. My point is we have to clearly define abuse and yes boundaries and NC may be needed in those cases. All relationships require efforts from all parties involved. It can’t be solely on parents. Are adult kids obligated to have relationships with their parents? Technically no but how sad to reject a foundation of support and love. Plus I think it’s dangerous for society. And I’m not talking about truly abused kids. There is alot of messaging on social media to cut off parents with no guard rails if they hurt your feelings. Resiliency in this young adult generation is the exception now because everything centers around feelings. That is what many of us are dealing with. We need understanding and empathy as well. I’m not wired to not be in contact with my children. No where in my immediate family do we have that. Estrangement is expanding past the gender issue.
I agree with all of this.
Wow! So the child bears no responsibility in the relationship? Their words or actions have no accountability? This is the bigger problem. This generation of adult children continue to get the messaging from the great Reddit and therapists that nothing is their fault. And the true victims of abuse get lost in a sea of self diagnosed victims. My child tries to compare me reading her diary at the age of 16 with being raped. And no one calls her out for it. There are more and more parents being left shellshocked and heartbroken with little dialogue or opportunity to work together to heal because young adults are being told they don’t owe their parents anything. And we now have the most anxious generation of young adults ever. I wonder why? Although my young adult isn’t struggling with gender issues there are threads that are very similar in the harshness towards us and the complete lack of empathy. So let me fix what you said. There are consequences for both parents and children in both words and actions. This creates trust issues on both sides that will need help and boundaries to heal relationships.
I didn’t say an adult child has no accountability for their actions. I do believe they do not have a responsibility to have a relationship with a parent. I think there are forces at work that are dividing families and I am against those. I am simply trying to make a distinction for the adult children who were truly harmed by their parents.
Sorry. I see you giving cover and affirmation to a population of young adult toddlers who want to blame everyone else for problems that many have created in their own minds. Talk to social workers who have had to deal with children living in poverty and who had/have drug addicted parents and they will tell you that most of the children don't want to leave their troubled parents to enter foster care. Those same children (as adults) still love and have feelings for their parents even though they didn't like their parent/s actions. For thousands of years people lived in familial clans and thrived.....through good and bad times......and human kind flourished. Why all of a sudden is the mantra to leave it all behind/blow it all up and find the "new, better you"?.....it sells a "product"! A psychological product with books and tapes and never ending "therapy" to keep some people employed while keeping the others in a psychological death spiral. It's just wrong!
MLisa, I 1000% agree with you. I havw thought about this so often... that in generations and tribes from ages before, respect and responsibility towards elders was correctly in place and it did NOT mess children up and give them trauma or a sense of entitlement and a right to abandon those who loved them, it gave them a sense of honour and belonging and the respect given to elders strengthened the tribe.
There are so many avenues to this atm. Psychology has become extremely toxic and is all about "self" and very rarely these days about the family care. I too have thought about children from truly horrific circumstances and how they still choose to be with their drug addict and negligent parent over a stranger, because the familial bond is crucial to human nature and a sense of self. The troubles we are born into help is strengthen. Helping pur parents as they age, brings us depth and teaches us to love unconditionally. We ALL know pur own parents annoy the hell out of us. It is normal to f9nd our parents annoying, it is how and why we separate and fly from the nest and how we self actualize BUT we are supposed to go out on our own and find ourselves, without actually cutting off our life ssource. We are to live pur lives separate from our parents BUT still connected.
In today's self help and actually, self-idolisation, psychology tells us to cut out anything that might be toxic and everything is about "healthy boundaries" and "live your best life now". It is self- serving, self-worshipping, entitled, vain, sad and lonely.
There will be a price to pay as it is not the way any culture has EVER EVER lived before. And whenever humans veer off the natural path of life and they way it should be, there is a price that will be paid. These children WILL become narcissists and narcissists die lonely. Psychology have not helped them, they have enabled extremely toxic behaviour and sabotaged the family relationship, which is tantamount to a healthy ssociety.
Even the person who you are replying to, who admits to being a psychologist, mentions why sometimes estrangement is good. That goes without saying, OBVIOUSLY sometimes certain steps are good. But that is not what is happening in society. Psychology has slightly shifted how it sees human mind and subtly veered from a family holistic approach to a self centered, egomaniacal approach.
Basically, psychology and social media together are grooming people to be the best little dictators the world has seen, all the while blaming EVERYONE ELSE for their problems and never accepting responsibility and carving a new road Where family is scrapped to the side of the road and seen as nothing more than an a shame and an inconvenience and NORMALLY enable by young psychologists themswlvea who have never yet even parented someone.
So I concur and I don'time where this will end for society. Family is the LAST sanctuary and institution that the government cannot own, and when it does, society will be ruined.
“These mothers tended to endorse external
attributions for estrangement, including family members’ turning the child against them
(e.g., child’s other biological parent or adult child’s romantic partner) or children’s
struggles with mental illness and/or addiction. Mothers were less likely to endorse
internal attributions for estrangement compared with external attributions or to validate
their children’s complaints about abuse or neglect.”
Schoppe-Sullivan, S., Coleman, J., Wang, J., and Yan J. J. (2023) Mothers' attributions for estrangement from their adult children. Couple and Family Psychology, Vol. 12, No. 3, 146-154.
My son came over 5 years ago and explained in plain English his wife was pressuring him to stop talking with his family. I took care of his feelings in that long afternoon discussion. 6 mths later he cut everyone out of his life. No one in the extended family/friends recognizes his behavior. So yes, spousal pressure is a huge contributor to estrangement as Coleman knows well. When I first contacted him, his exact words, "it's common." I have spoken with many fellow parents, same script played out. Divorce parents who play power games is considered parental alienation.
This!!!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it sounds like you have swallowed the wrong Kool Aid. You are part of the problem as your wording sounds like it is directly out of the self help industry itself.
My point is that sometimes there is a case for estrangement and low or no contact. Plenty of parents have harmed their children and children have a right to heal. Parents don’t have a right to a relationship with their children. The poster conflates estrangement with estrangement over gender ideology. I am only pointing out sometimes estrangement is justified. I understand that is not a message that is often not true or welcome or relevant here, but I felt it was important to point out there is a difference between a truly justified estrangement vs an estrangement based on a gender cult.
My daughter from whom I'm not estranged says such things directly to my face in occasional outbursts while my son is in the trans cult and has no contact so I don't know if he justifies himself in this way or why he's doing it. I torment myself - is it all my fault ? - but I know, really, this is nothing to do with anything I've done or not done. It's a global cultural trend that's swept through and broken my heart, destroyed our life and many others, affecting all kinds and classes of families. It's the new normal. Young mothers-to-be don't want their mothers around, young families don't want their parents visiting. Right up to total hatred and estrangement. I never lie about it when people ask about my children - I tell the the truth and it's amazing how many respond with stories of their own which they would never normally reveal.
It's like these comments on Reddit are even weaponized against parents. They have all of the possible scenarios covered and give the proper response to stay in agreement with the cult. All of the responses are purely narcissistic and sociopathic. There is no where for these kids to go where they can hear healthy, sensible, truthful, and non-self serving information. Astonishing.
Wow. That was really something to read. The sad part is, I can absolutely imagine adult estranged children thinking and writing this way, all the while feeling totally justified and empowered by cutting their parents out of their lives. They are like grown adult toddlers, with no awareness of the world around them outside of their narrow-mindedness, due really to the society-wide brain-washing that has become an unescapable beast. I am one of those parents. It is so very difficult as many (all) of you would know. I think I am approaching the point of realising I need to take care of me. I will always love my daughter of course, but I think I need to love me more now, so that I can be a healthy human being if or when she ever returns. It is all very sad. Thank you for posting
Yes we have to mourn it and then sold care and try to find happiness. It’s like a death but you know they are alive so you can’t grieve it like a death. Forgive her for she knows not what she is doing. Remember who you were before kids. Pour into yourself and value those that value you. And leave the door open but don’t stand waiting for her to walk through.
I wonder why God didn’t make honoring your children a commandment? Hmmmm. Maybe Children would turn narcissistic.
Guide your children in the way they should go, and they will not depart from it (once they turn 25, if if the cult doesn't have enough influence).
One thing I find uniquely challenging is having a child go NC with one parent (me) and full contact with the other (hubby). It can cause triangulation and other marital stress. It is just plain awkward and also painful.
It used to be that way in the beginning. They eventually turn on the other parent, too.....ask me how I know!
Just happened to us too! No contact with the affirming father! Maybe that is good? I dare not ask what is going on. I guess her health is deteriorating. That is inevitable after seven years of testosterone plus antidepressant. What next! Detransition I hope
That sounds very difficult, particularly if you and your husband are still together (sounds like and hoping you are). I was divorced way before any of this came about, but now I am the 'bad' parent who is cut off, and my ex is the 'good' affirming parent. I wish you all the best moving forward. I'm glad you recognise the triangulation aspect. All the best xx
It is pretty clear that we have generation of indoctrinated children (don't deserve the title of adult) who have bought into all this BS. I think they not self-aware enough to even see that their ideas are wrong even though the evidence is there to look at. Look at the young moms (why is it that moms are always proclaiming?) on TikTok proclaiming their X year old is trans? I used to like to watch my mom cook and help bake cookies. I got a play stove one birthday or Christmas which I "cooked on." Had my parents not been from the greatest generation, I would probably be a eunuch in drag today. At some point we are going to stop this insanity and bring all those who abetted this nightmare to justice. Nothing short of a global Nuremberg Trial is needed.
Agree
Arriving on the very day of my long-estranged firstborn's 31st birthday, this excellent insight into the cult of estrangment from the adult-child's perspective could not have been more timely. Thank you. His father (my husband) is sending the birthday email this time. Usually I do it, but I couldn't face the sixth one after five were sent and unanswered, even one offering him $10,000 ($US 6,000) for his 30th, as well as the Xmas ones and a few others throughout the year. I'm not proud of the attempted bribe, but we were desperate. Indeed I almost envy some of you having the tether of your child needing you for money. But to him I am one of those 'narcisistic' mothers who didn't have to do anything actually wrong to be deemed unloving and estranged with zero contact. In our case this was not trans-related, except that his younger sister is a very vocal trans ally and I am a very vocal Terf and they are in contact (she has estranged me too, now). But for him it was more his computer-based socialising, from teenagehood on, with young male Incel culture where mother and women-blaming is even more vicious than it is in the trans space, though the two seem to have largely merged now. Reddit has a lot to answer for with the rise of both of these anti-parent cults. But thank you for this post and for the many relateable, heartrending comments too. You all helped me deal with the pain that comes every year on the anniversary of the day I became a mother.
This is exactly what the pro-Hamas protesters at Columbia demanded, isn’t it? “Cater hot food to us while we occupy a university building!” What a bunch of entitled babies!
Good thing we didn’t send them out to get their heads cracked in the Civil Rights movement, or to sit at the lunch counters!
Sorry, meant this to reply to ImNotThere
I found it. :)