How does this help? If radical acceptance was the culture, why are these kids so vulnerable to the idea that their bodies are wrong? I understand the frustration and anger, but we truly are talking about vulnerable children whose brains are not yet fully developed. They're being used as pawns. As a mother, I would never consider punishin…
How does this help? If radical acceptance was the culture, why are these kids so vulnerable to the idea that their bodies are wrong? I understand the frustration and anger, but we truly are talking about vulnerable children whose brains are not yet fully developed. They're being used as pawns. As a mother, I would never consider punishing my child in this way. I don't see how sacrificing those who've fallen prey to this helps us shut it down.
The reason they are "vulnerable" is that this is the hysteria of the time. You need to read "Popular delusions and the madness of crowds". These children are not vulnerable. They are being swept up in a hysteria. Other hysterias of recent years include anorexia, bulemia, multiple personalities, and demon worshipping at day care centers (you may think I am making that up, but look for "McMartin day care satanic" on yer googler). These hysterias sweep children up. There are several reasons. First of all, they allow the kid to separate from the parent. Second, they give the kid blackmail tools - "If you don't let me cut my boobs off, I'll kill myself". Third, they get massive reinforcement from other kids.
A lot of these kids are vulnerable. They do use blackmail. They are swept up in a type of hysteria. They already have conditions such as anorexia and already self harm before “transing”. In the case of my daughter taking testosterone was just one more step in the direction of self harm. She did not have the ability to know when to stop. Parents are not allowed to say “No” to them. Social workers are to blame
I’m with you George on a macro level— if society, as a whole, overnight, announced this ideology was harmful bullshit, and if schools, universities, therapists, police, peers, and doctors all stopped encouraging and enabling this self-harm, this would not continue. The kid would have no support and no tools to enact this type of self-harm.
However, the best macro strategy (all of society calling bullshit and refusing to play the game) is not the same as the best micro strategy, which addresses the question “what does an individual parent do in this situation to encourage their child’s health and well-being in a context where all of society is enabling their continued self-harm?”
Because here’s the thing: if individual parents act as you suggest in the present cultural context, it’s feeding the cult narrative of “mean, rejecting parents who are a danger to this poor kid”— it adds fuel to the hysteria and it makes it more likely that not only will you remain estranged from your kid, with no influence over him/her, but everyone else will see you as a villain and open their wallets more readily to “help” your poor, poor child.
By employing “bright lines” as a micro strategy, you undermine our ultimate goal which is for all of society to recognize this as madness and harm. Focusing on you as the “bad parent” of your “poor child” blinds them to the bigger picture.
I don’t think any of us has the answers, and each situation is different, but it might be helpful for individual parents to be very public about “We love and accept our child no matter what. We want to be in touch with [name] at any time. If [name] isn’t comfortable with that, we’d be willing to attend therapy together as a family to see if we can make things better.”
You want to throw a wrench of cognitive dissonance into the notions of people who suppose that you, the mean, rejecting, cruel, transphobic parents, are the bad guys persecuting your poor misunderstood trans child.
You want people to understand that you’re the confused, open-hearted good guys who love your kid no matter what. You don’t understand what your kid is doing, and in fact you have concerns that it’s harmful, but you love and accept your kid no matter what and you continue to hope your kid will be part of your family life. You’re willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen.
That’s the message that people who think you’re cruel and rejecting need to hear, to jolt them out of their transphobia narrative. Other people, who haven’t gone through this particular hellish experience, need to realize that something is wrong, something doesn’t quite add up.
This is indeed a hysteria (I’ve written specifically about mass hysteria recently and how it relates to this wave of kids adopting trans identities—“TikTok Tics…” if anyone’s interested).
What some people don’t know is that Diane Ehrensaft, before she was an influential trans ideology cheerleader, was deep into the Satanic panic stuff too. That she has any remaining credibility is very surprising.
Medium is also a terrible place for kids/teens/young adults. Lots of trans young adults expounding on why they are so right and "happy" but really have underlying issues. Anyone can post and read. I think this is where my son started looking for what is wrong with him. Having a manipulative girl friend that we had to end helped. They are back communicating after she tried to manipulate another friend who takes meds for depression. He's an "adult" in college and this semester basically is estranged unless he needs money. It's just so sad what's happening.
One other point - please try to use "gender-dysphoric female" not "trans male", and "gender-dysphoric male" not "trans female". A "trans female" is a type of female. If someone is a "trans female", they are more like other females than like males. This buys into the hysteria and madness.
If someone is a "gender-dysphoric male", there is no reason why a "male" should play on the same sports teams as females, or be in the "female" bathroom or locker room.
It sounds petty and small, but the language is important. It controls how we think about the persons with this gender-dysphoria delusion.
Some thoughts there I agree with. Some I do not agree with.
In the 1960s, when I was in HS, girls who got pregnant were sent to schools for pregnant girls. After the kid was born and adopted out, they returned to HS.
In the 1970s and 1980s, pregnant girls continued in HS. The consequence of this was more kids got pregnant. NORMALIZING pregnancy led to more of it.
There are a number of stages in how we respond to things. There is condemnation/suppression, tolerance, acceptance, and promotion. In the 1950s, we were in condemnation/suppression. Turing was given drugs to suppress his gay nature (some of the same drugs gender-dysphoric boys get today). We moved to tolerance. Following the Stonewall riots, we moved to acceptance, and now we are at promotion.
Promotion is where the perversion and mutilation are actually given MORE credence than normal behavior. In these colleges and clinics, the perverted medicalization of sexuality seems to be promoted.
We are getting more of this due to promotion.
If we want more kids on medicalized sexuality, cutting their boobs off, cutting their dicks off, we can continue promotion/acceptance. To my mind, this is not an acceptable thing, and it is actively harming many many children.
The hysteria/cult is not ending by acceptance and tolerance. It's being promoted.
A problem is that everywhere your child goes including school the insanity gets endorsed. That leaves only the parents as the "unreasonable" ones. The school will not back you up. Your plan would call for getting teachers and administrators not to work against you behind your back.
Oh I was just referring to the title of one of my two posts on substack that address the trans issue. This is the one: https://bprice.substack.com/p/tiktok-tics-and-mass-sociogenic-illness I didn't post a link before, because I don't want to be ruthlessly self-promoting (ha). I just want people to know it's there if they're interested.
Interesting discussion. Perhaps we should go on tictoc and start a social hysteria involving normal sex attraction to the other sex which does not involve chemicals, surgery, or artificial stuff. We need a name, maybe like "other sex attraction syndrome". OSAS.
I don't know where that particular one is but it's not uncommon. Take a look at this Benjamin Boyce interview regarding Gender Indoctrination in Public Schools (CA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi-526ptMz4 And, the Chicago Public Schools have instituted "Gender Inclusive" signs on all their bathrooms. Parents in Loudoun County, VA are fighting back. This needs to be fought grassroots on the ground and systemically at the national level.
I am aware and agree with all of this AND these kids are vulnerable to it. I'm not vulnerable to it; you're not vulnerable to it, but evidently there are plenty of other grown-ups who are. Why?! Other systems are failing them. I believe it will be the rise of detransitioners who will bring awareness to the nightmare. They'll need us to bolster them when it's time. As a parent, I refuse to join in the failing of our children; I don't think we just write off a whole generation because they got caught up in the hysteria of our time. We go after the institutions not the kids.
Also "support you" doesn't mean we support you to do whatever you want. It means we are are your tribe and will always have your best interest at heart. This means we will also let you know when we believe you're doing something harmful to yourself or others--things you're doing that we do not support.
How does this help? If radical acceptance was the culture, why are these kids so vulnerable to the idea that their bodies are wrong? I understand the frustration and anger, but we truly are talking about vulnerable children whose brains are not yet fully developed. They're being used as pawns. As a mother, I would never consider punishing my child in this way. I don't see how sacrificing those who've fallen prey to this helps us shut it down.
The reason they are "vulnerable" is that this is the hysteria of the time. You need to read "Popular delusions and the madness of crowds". These children are not vulnerable. They are being swept up in a hysteria. Other hysterias of recent years include anorexia, bulemia, multiple personalities, and demon worshipping at day care centers (you may think I am making that up, but look for "McMartin day care satanic" on yer googler). These hysterias sweep children up. There are several reasons. First of all, they allow the kid to separate from the parent. Second, they give the kid blackmail tools - "If you don't let me cut my boobs off, I'll kill myself". Third, they get massive reinforcement from other kids.
A lot of these kids are vulnerable. They do use blackmail. They are swept up in a type of hysteria. They already have conditions such as anorexia and already self harm before “transing”. In the case of my daughter taking testosterone was just one more step in the direction of self harm. She did not have the ability to know when to stop. Parents are not allowed to say “No” to them. Social workers are to blame
I’m with you George on a macro level— if society, as a whole, overnight, announced this ideology was harmful bullshit, and if schools, universities, therapists, police, peers, and doctors all stopped encouraging and enabling this self-harm, this would not continue. The kid would have no support and no tools to enact this type of self-harm.
However, the best macro strategy (all of society calling bullshit and refusing to play the game) is not the same as the best micro strategy, which addresses the question “what does an individual parent do in this situation to encourage their child’s health and well-being in a context where all of society is enabling their continued self-harm?”
Because here’s the thing: if individual parents act as you suggest in the present cultural context, it’s feeding the cult narrative of “mean, rejecting parents who are a danger to this poor kid”— it adds fuel to the hysteria and it makes it more likely that not only will you remain estranged from your kid, with no influence over him/her, but everyone else will see you as a villain and open their wallets more readily to “help” your poor, poor child.
By employing “bright lines” as a micro strategy, you undermine our ultimate goal which is for all of society to recognize this as madness and harm. Focusing on you as the “bad parent” of your “poor child” blinds them to the bigger picture.
I don’t think any of us has the answers, and each situation is different, but it might be helpful for individual parents to be very public about “We love and accept our child no matter what. We want to be in touch with [name] at any time. If [name] isn’t comfortable with that, we’d be willing to attend therapy together as a family to see if we can make things better.”
You want to throw a wrench of cognitive dissonance into the notions of people who suppose that you, the mean, rejecting, cruel, transphobic parents, are the bad guys persecuting your poor misunderstood trans child.
You want people to understand that you’re the confused, open-hearted good guys who love your kid no matter what. You don’t understand what your kid is doing, and in fact you have concerns that it’s harmful, but you love and accept your kid no matter what and you continue to hope your kid will be part of your family life. You’re willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen.
That’s the message that people who think you’re cruel and rejecting need to hear, to jolt them out of their transphobia narrative. Other people, who haven’t gone through this particular hellish experience, need to realize that something is wrong, something doesn’t quite add up.
This is indeed a hysteria (I’ve written specifically about mass hysteria recently and how it relates to this wave of kids adopting trans identities—“TikTok Tics…” if anyone’s interested).
What some people don’t know is that Diane Ehrensaft, before she was an influential trans ideology cheerleader, was deep into the Satanic panic stuff too. That she has any remaining credibility is very surprising.
Medium is also a terrible place for kids/teens/young adults. Lots of trans young adults expounding on why they are so right and "happy" but really have underlying issues. Anyone can post and read. I think this is where my son started looking for what is wrong with him. Having a manipulative girl friend that we had to end helped. They are back communicating after she tried to manipulate another friend who takes meds for depression. He's an "adult" in college and this semester basically is estranged unless he needs money. It's just so sad what's happening.
Our daughter had a controlling manipulative boyfriend. I hear you.
Right on!
Agreed: How can Ehrensaft have any remaining crediblitly?
One other point - please try to use "gender-dysphoric female" not "trans male", and "gender-dysphoric male" not "trans female". A "trans female" is a type of female. If someone is a "trans female", they are more like other females than like males. This buys into the hysteria and madness.
If someone is a "gender-dysphoric male", there is no reason why a "male" should play on the same sports teams as females, or be in the "female" bathroom or locker room.
It sounds petty and small, but the language is important. It controls how we think about the persons with this gender-dysphoria delusion.
Some thoughts there I agree with. Some I do not agree with.
In the 1960s, when I was in HS, girls who got pregnant were sent to schools for pregnant girls. After the kid was born and adopted out, they returned to HS.
In the 1970s and 1980s, pregnant girls continued in HS. The consequence of this was more kids got pregnant. NORMALIZING pregnancy led to more of it.
There are a number of stages in how we respond to things. There is condemnation/suppression, tolerance, acceptance, and promotion. In the 1950s, we were in condemnation/suppression. Turing was given drugs to suppress his gay nature (some of the same drugs gender-dysphoric boys get today). We moved to tolerance. Following the Stonewall riots, we moved to acceptance, and now we are at promotion.
Promotion is where the perversion and mutilation are actually given MORE credence than normal behavior. In these colleges and clinics, the perverted medicalization of sexuality seems to be promoted.
We are getting more of this due to promotion.
If we want more kids on medicalized sexuality, cutting their boobs off, cutting their dicks off, we can continue promotion/acceptance. To my mind, this is not an acceptable thing, and it is actively harming many many children.
The hysteria/cult is not ending by acceptance and tolerance. It's being promoted.
A problem is that everywhere your child goes including school the insanity gets endorsed. That leaves only the parents as the "unreasonable" ones. The school will not back you up. Your plan would call for getting teachers and administrators not to work against you behind your back.
Yes, yes! All of this. Thank you for this lengthy, well-articulated response. On which platforms would I find TikTok Tics?
Or are you referring specifically to the TikTok tics that are emerging among teen girls watching TikTok?
Oh I was just referring to the title of one of my two posts on substack that address the trans issue. This is the one: https://bprice.substack.com/p/tiktok-tics-and-mass-sociogenic-illness I didn't post a link before, because I don't want to be ruthlessly self-promoting (ha). I just want people to know it's there if they're interested.
Interesting discussion. Perhaps we should go on tictoc and start a social hysteria involving normal sex attraction to the other sex which does not involve chemicals, surgery, or artificial stuff. We need a name, maybe like "other sex attraction syndrome". OSAS.
They really are in a cult. I think that NXIVM is also a good model. That mom didn't get her kid out by cutting her off. We need to make cult indoctrination illegal in schools. Have you seen https://notthebee.com/article/kindergarten-teacher-using-the-respectful-reindeer-to-teach-pronouns-to-little-kids
That reindeer video is very concerning. Where is that taking place?
I don't know where that particular one is but it's not uncommon. Take a look at this Benjamin Boyce interview regarding Gender Indoctrination in Public Schools (CA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi-526ptMz4 And, the Chicago Public Schools have instituted "Gender Inclusive" signs on all their bathrooms. Parents in Loudoun County, VA are fighting back. This needs to be fought grassroots on the ground and systemically at the national level.
Private schools are not better.
It's happening in towns with 8k population too.
I am aware and agree with all of this AND these kids are vulnerable to it. I'm not vulnerable to it; you're not vulnerable to it, but evidently there are plenty of other grown-ups who are. Why?! Other systems are failing them. I believe it will be the rise of detransitioners who will bring awareness to the nightmare. They'll need us to bolster them when it's time. As a parent, I refuse to join in the failing of our children; I don't think we just write off a whole generation because they got caught up in the hysteria of our time. We go after the institutions not the kids.
Also "support you" doesn't mean we support you to do whatever you want. It means we are are your tribe and will always have your best interest at heart. This means we will also let you know when we believe you're doing something harmful to yourself or others--things you're doing that we do not support.