67 Comments

Thanks for writing about this.

Playing whack-a-mole with rebuttals seems a fool's game to me. Turban has been called out in the past for what he is -a schill for big pharma. Yet he and his friends keep publishing. And people keep rebutting.

Here's an oldie just to prove the point.

https://uncommongroundmedia.com/jack-turban-investigated-americal-medical-association/

'Gender dysphoria' is a propaganda campaign. Rapid Onset Transgender belief Indoctrination seems more akin to my daughter's years long battle with the propaganda machine. They have convinced oodles of young people they are severely broken. What happened to fundamental truths -male and female? Without big pharma, this condition would all but disappear- and so would Jack Turban. These are crimes against humanity which leads to grave harms, suicide included. The so-called experts are criminals and well paid ones at that bringing in funding for their university research. I wonder what Jack's team at UCSF is working on now?

Expand full comment

Yes, Jack Turban is a total quack. I do not see much point to rebutting people like him and Satanic Panic Dr. Diane Ehrensaft of UCSF. They just keep spewing nonsense. And, it never costs them their positions.

Real questions need to be asked, like why is child mutilation enthusiast "Admiral" Richard/Rachael Levine not behind bars yet? And, who is responsible for his employment?

Yesterday I read Don Surber's "Liberals destroy society - From dams to cities to children, they demolish everything" a definition of TERF: "Men in dresses replaced real women who are now called TERFs, an acronym for women without testosterone."

I will add my own: TERF = TEstosteronless Real Female.

I will also add that liberal and conservative are somewhat meaningless right now. We live in Looney Tunes times. The liberals are cultural Marxists who seek the destruction of society and the conservatives did not care to conserve our daughters. They just want to pretend everything is fine and keep the country club memberships?

Expand full comment

Looney tunes it is! I roll my eyes at anything coming from UCSF, one of what I call the high command centers of gender ideology. UCLA, Lurie and Boston Children's round out the top 4.

Expand full comment

You've got that right.

I hope Rafferty loses his license to practice medicine . His form of "practice" = medical experimentation on minors in the name of an ideology and almighty $$.

Lawsuit against Dr. Jason Rafferty and others and American Academy of Pediatrics:

https://dw-wp-production.imgix.net/2023/10/Ayala-v-AAP-Complaint_stamped.pdf

Article about it:

https://nypost.com/2023/12/13/news/detransitioner-suing-american-academy-of-pediatrics/

"Ayala filed her lawsuit in October, naming seven doctors and 15 John Does she accuses of “civil conspiracy, fraud and medical malpractice.” Among the physicians named is Dr. Jason Rafferty, the doctor who she alleges prescribed her testosterone on her first visit."

When I first entered the Gender Twilight Zone because of my daughter I saw Whacko pseudo-science papers written by Turban and Rafferty - supported by serious medical journals and institutions which have lost the plot/mission. Like, "Do No Harm" and "Heal" - or something - not this. I think the problem must be much deeper than a couple of selfish nutters. Like, Dr. Mengele and Hitler didn't do everything on their own. Fellow professionals are playing along/not removing these dangerous Quacks. In 1930s Germany the doctors were actually out ahead of the politicians who had to rein them in a bit. Of course, we are past that phase in CA, WA, OR, and MN - and the Federal Government for that matter.

Expand full comment

I think it's deeper and broader than merely Big Pharma. It seems to be an international Industrial Complex involving all major mainstream institutions of society.

Expand full comment

Jennifer Bialek, in her blog The 11th Hour, examines the pharmaceutical companies involvement and follows the money.

Expand full comment

Yes, I think you are absolutely right. It is more like pharma is the greatest tool for the puppet masters in charge.

Expand full comment

Thank you. A large challenge of combatting the false narratives of gender dysphoria/transgenderism is sharing factual rebuttals of various studies that claim to "prove" the normality of trans. Like Mark Twain said, “A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes,” and that was before the internet. Once a lie has been posted, it's impossible to get that genie back into the bottle. The Turban study has been quoted often to deny Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria among children, pre- and teens, but the study methods and conclusions were manipulated to support the bias. Probably more than most want to read in depth, but a quick read of the Sapir, Littman and Biggs rebuttal that you posted will help show how studies are manipulated.

Expand full comment

“ROGD” is wrong. It’s rapid because of teen conformity.

More importantly, it’s late. Real GID has its onset in age 4-6, not adolescence. It should be “LOGD.”

Because it’s social contagion.

Expand full comment

Absolutely. And doesn’t true GID almost always affect boys, not girls? And even when it starts early in childhood, I have read that the majority of cases resolve at puberty, when the hormones matching the biological sex kick in (if they're not blocked by "gender-affirming care", that is).

There is simply no precedent for large numbers of young people becoming "trans" around puberty or later. It's just a bunch of hooey. But young people don't have enough life experience to realize that.

Expand full comment

Except it's really not GID, so it's not LOGD either!! How about FOGD - False Onset GD? Or SFOGD? Sudden False Onset since so many parents have no idea what's going on in the misdirected minds of their children until they suddenly claim to be trans? The possibilities are long!!

Expand full comment

Yes. Transgender ideation/identity is as real as Covid.

Expand full comment

Actually, no. COVID is a medical reality with tests to verify. There are none for trans. Maybe I misunderstood you.

Expand full comment

One in 30,000 boys

One in 100,000 girls

One in 65,000, not one in 65.

5-6000 in the entire country

Expand full comment

I came to hate my body when I hit puberty. I felt so awkward, and I certainly wasn't some pretty teenage movie heroine. My hair and skin were greasy no matter how often I washed them. I had acne. I had periods from hell. I hated my breasts. I was ridiculed because they were "too small," yet stupid guys noticed them enough to grope me and to snap my bra. I hated having gross grown men catcall me. Who wouldn't want to opt out of being female when this is what we have to look forward to?

These days, I certainly would have been put on the path to transition. I assure you, I am not "really a guy." I have never "felt" like I was male. I never actually wanted to be male. What I wanted was to be taken seriously and not objectified.

Expand full comment

My youngest daughter is currently going through this & due to social media now thinks she's a boy. I'm not letting her get hormones or anything like that (thank goodness the state of Texas doesn't allow medical experimentation on minors disguised as 'trans care') so I fear that she will cut me out of her life once she turns 18 and becomes independent.

Expand full comment

Maybe they should meet my daughters. Explain how both of them suddenly decided they were born in the wrong body. I don’t believe it even for one of them, but both seems highly unlikely. They had no signs and were quite feminine up until the last few years when all of this started. It’s ridiculous.

Expand full comment

They had no signs of being born in the wrong body because there can't be such signs. Those with early onset dysphoria were not "born in the wrong body" either. Nobody is. I suspect Turban and other gender vultures would probably try to use your daughters as evidence of a biological/genetic component. (A stupid idea of course but in line with their other ideas).

Sorry about your daughters, I hope they come to their senses soon.

Expand full comment

Much sympathy here. For my son, it was the bilge from the internet.

Expand full comment

It's important to note that the 2015 Trans Survey's data is inherently low-quality, because it was an anonymous online survey. Participants were self-selected, not chosen by scientists. They were classified based on self-definitions, not those of scientists. It relied on self-assessments by the participants, rather than objective evaluation by clinicians. Information was unverifiable, there were no safeguards against false responses or repeat participation by the same individuals. There was no control group of non-trans people to compare the data with.

The more you learn about transgenderism from a scientific viewpoint, the more you realize it is entirely self-generated. Trans people are considered trans because they say so, not because there's any objective evidence for it (there isn't). They are given drugs and surgery because they want them, not because they've been shown to be more helpful than harmful (they haven't). The treatment "works" because trans people say it does, not because the objectively-evaluated results are positive (they aren't).

In this case, the power of the Scientific Method has been utterly overwhelmed by the power of narcissistic gaslighting.

Expand full comment

Absolutely, Hazel-rah. And this applies particularly well to the self-reports of teens who say - despite there being no evidence whatsoever that this is true from parents who observed their children carefully for their entire childhoods - I always felt like a boy, but I just didn't tell anyone until I learned the language (through social and mainstream media or at school) that I was "trans," or until I felt compelled to reveal the truth, or until I felt comfortable revealing the truth. As if a 5-year-old is capable of such guile and deception - never revealing their distressing thoughts, either in words or through behavior.

[My daughter, who "discovered" she was "trans" on the internet at 12.5 years old, says being "trans" is why she was always rude to her family (but polite to everyone else), although she never expressed any discomfort with her female body or being a girl until her internet epiphany. Not only does her rude behavior "prove" she was always "trans," but it also wholly excuses her rude behavior toward her family - really a win-win for her!]

Anyone can claim they thought something as a child and it cannot be disproved (ie. it is unfalsifiable). Bob Frank is right.

Expand full comment

So is she rude because "boys are rude" or because you, the family, locked her in a female body prison and she just sensed it even before discovering her "true self"? Kids...

Expand full comment

I think her theory is the latter. Yeah, kids.

Expand full comment

Always remember Karl Popper. Any notion that is not falsifiable cannot be considered scientifically valid. If there is no objective criteria by which you can say "this person who says they are trans is not trans" then the entire premise is nonsense.

Expand full comment
Comment deleted
Dec 19, 2023
Comment deleted
Expand full comment

"Sometimes the results are positive. My life significantly improved post-lobotomy. There's no lobotomy monolith. We are individuals with separate life experiences impacting our lobotomy trajectories."

https://nihrecord.nih.gov/2019/11/01/when-faces-made-case-lobotomy

(Edit: for those who missed Zander's comment, my response is identical with "lobotomy" in place of "transition")

Expand full comment

Well put! The whole trans mania is a manufactured one , and those who fall for that would also fall for lobotomy ( note: performed on the mentally disturbed ) or the Satanic panic! Neither of those lasted as long or were as widely dispersed as the trans manure. The main reason that the trans crap is so prevalent now despite the minuscule number who have transitioned is the millions of dollars behind the insanity. What a windfall for Big Pharma ! What a lucrative business opportunity for the surgeons performing Frankenstein operations!

The myths are also giving so - called progressives the opportunity to show their virtue . “ Look how KIND we are for these poor “ marginalized victims! “

Meanwhile , let’s leave women in the ditch! Meanwhile , those who don’t think that men can be women are persecuted and called all sorts of nasty names or even violently attacked by masked “ do-gooders”! Meanwhile lies abound , and like in all authoritarian societies, you’d better believe those lies if you don’t want to lose your job! Orwell is alive and well and living in Transmania!

Time to get out the garlic!

Expand full comment

I don't understand your cruelty.

Expand full comment

Truth above all! Lies told to kids is cruelty.

Expand full comment

You want us to lie to you. Sorry, can't do it. There are tens of thousands of confused kids out there who could be influenced to harm themselves, and parents who could be deceived into allowing it. They are more important than you.

Expand full comment

I don't encourage dishonesty. I also don't behave cruelly towards others. Some of the parents in this group will have kids who will grow up to be happy and well-adjusted transsexual adults, like me. I was 39yo when I started my transition nearly 20yrs ago. Hopefully, you don't behave cruelly towards them along the way. It could impact them very negatively down the road.

Expand full comment

A lot more of them will grow up happy and well-adjusted if they don't transition. That's why we stopped doing lobotomies, and that's why we need to stop doing medical transitions.

If you were able to see past your own navel, you would understand that you are only one (1) person out of thousands, and the thousands tell a different story than you do.

How selfish can you be to want to see other people harm themselves just to validate you and your own decisions?

Expand full comment

Read Alice Dreger's Galileo's Middle Finger.

Expand full comment

I have had a distinct and continuous recollection (no "recovered memories") that I believed I was a boy at age 5, and was quite insistent and vocal about it. I remember one night, at age 5, in the bathtub with my brother, who was 3 years older, pointing out why he was a boy and I was a girl. I was devastated. I still recall how palpable my disappointment was, and still feels when I remember that moment. I'm glad I'm a woman now, but when I recall that moment, I still feel the pain I felt back then.

I should share this with the authors.

Are there any other childhood desisters here, please?

I wish i could meet some, especially given how common it is for kids to believe at some point that they're the opposite sex.

Expand full comment

The Boy Who Wasn’t a Girl

At age 5, upon discovery of the existence of tomboys, I immediately identified myself to my best friend and my parents as a “janegirl” (which upon reflection was linguistically clever) but was basically ignored - I can even give the exactly address and spot where it popped in my mind in Phoenix Arizona where we lived at the time. At age 6 I remember watching a “Sword and Sandals” movie on TV with a seminude Steve Reeves (strangely squashed vertically which was how TV handled wide format in those days) which entranced me. My parents joked for more than a decade about my infatuation with “Perculebes”. At age 7, after we had moved to the Deep South, I watched the Mario Bava horror film “Black Sunday” one afternoon which began with huge seminude bodybuilders executing a witch. I was transfixed by the oiled bodies. For the remainder of my childhood I was bullied incessantly for feminine (sissy) behaviors and I sought out reasons why I was harassed. Public library reading around age 9 (I was very precocious) pointed me to the existence of transsexualism and I decided (1) that’s me and (2) when I was older I would have surgery and would get married to a handsome hairy muscular man. Around age 11/12 at the onset of puberty, I remember watching the “Tomorrow Show” with handsome dimpled Tom Snyder one night quite late, with the show set in a gay disco in NYC instead of the studio. The hairy shirtless muscular men kissing for the camera went “click” in my head, I somehow recognized myself in the conversation. I remember I began researching where gay men congregated for where I would go to university, 5 years was an eternity, and honestly sex fueled my getting a perfect PSAT and a national merit scholarship, and later perfect ACT and 1600 SAT’s so I could escape where I was. I evolved as boys do during puberty, from a blond waif into a hairy-legged broad-shouldered sissy linebacker, and was suddenly left alone by bullies. By 15 had managed to sneak out and have gay sex while on a Student trip to Nashville (Honor Society!), and similarly while 16 in NYC on a family trip, and DC at 17. The rest is history.

All thoughts of trans gone, though I remembered the feeling...

Expand full comment

My daughter desisted. Her mental spiral from ages 13 to 17 included a ROGD claim of being a boy. It also included cutting, anorexia, severe anxiety and suicidal ideation. She cut her wrists in March severely and for the last time. It scared her (and me) so tremendously that she stopped all the ridiculous claims of being trans. She started eating sensibly and hasnt cut sense. Shes been accepted to 7 colleges and dresses like a girl again. She has light and laughter for the first time since the downward spiral. But we went through 7 therapists and 2 psychiatrists. Every time they affirmed, I found a new one. Her current therapist came from GETA and is a God send. Multiple times a day I think 1. Good God, what if she would've gone through with medicalizing? These poor kids who are as mentally fucked up as she was are being pushed to permanently damage their healthy bodies. It is physically sickening. And 2. How did we get so lucky? There were days that I was deep in the nightmare feeling like I was in the middle of the ocean screaming and no one could hear me. Watching my baby girl self destruct right before my very eyes and no one could help us. Accept for Stella and Sasha. I clung to every word, read every book, re listened to their podcasts, constantly searching. I think about all these young people who are going to wake up, mature and be forced to face the damage they did to their own healthy bodies. I predict the suicide rate in this cohort will be astronomical in a few years. It will be a stain on history for years to come.

Expand full comment

OK, no scientific evidence at all , but just based on what I see online, I feel like there is a "four year itch" with ROGD (well 2-7 maybe). That is, the kids get sick and tired of this nonsense eventually. So, those of us whose kids discover it young (13 in your case) should thank our lucky start because we can delay the process long enough for kids to get bored with this crap and leave it behind. Those who discover trans as adults may get sick of it in a few years as well. Unfortunately, with nobody able to hold them back, many spend those years medicalizing rather than just waiting it out.

Expand full comment

This is an observation I hadn't considered, but I agree. It's hard work lying to yourself that you're the opposite sex when you know damn well you're not. Especially as a young adolescent. Imagine the freedom of finally saying "screw this, screw these TRAs, I'm fine with my female self".

Sending ♡

Expand full comment

If only!!

Expand full comment

I think so too. The people I know locally whose daughters desisted both started in middle school, so around twelve. My daughter was sixteen. She just turned eighteen so only two years in and she can start testosterone or seek out surgery. When she starts college she will immediately find the trans echo chamber on campus. We have a long road ahead.

Expand full comment

Julie, I always try to give hope. We are looking at college too and I was fearful for the same reasons. But I put my financial foot down. Not paying for ANYTHING if you try to medicalize. No cell, no car insurance, no college help. Period. And you need to get a job. NOW. I dont know if that firmness scared her or it was just another reason to stop the ridiculousness. Luckily she desisted before I had to go through with it. ♡

Expand full comment

Thanks. My husband and I are debating that strategy.

Expand full comment

Your and your daughter's story is so heartbreaking, then amazing. I'm so glad she woke up. This is a political/social justice cult drawing girls in. May I ask what appealed to her about it, and drew her in? I'm so glad she's stopped the dangerous behavior and ideation. Great work, both of you. Does she write about her experience? It would be interesting if she researched desisters and deteans for papers at school. And what a success, 7 colleges! Congrats to her.

Expand full comment

As of yet, she doesn't talk about it and I don't push. In time. For now we are enjoying being together and making up for those lost years. We are focused on her accomplishments and building self esteem. I tell her none of this was her fault. I dread the day when she realizes all those scars arent going to fade. I know her well enough to know there will be pain wrapped in that. And without speaking it, she has monsterous guilt for what she put me through, as her mama and single parent. What she has told me is she felt like a chameleon. She had 7 peers at the same time come out as trans. ( But ROGD isnt founded, how infuriating!! )

I do believe she's embarrassed. Maybe one day we'll talk through it, but for now I let her therapist guide her. She wants to study psychology with a research concentration. That's wrapped in its own fear as we all know what is happening on college campuses. However, she has chosen a FL state school known for medical research and as the tide shifts, prayers that the educational integrity is also changing. And I plow into critical thinking EVERY SINGLE DAY showing her all the instances we are being lied to. She sees it.🙏

Thank you for your kind thoughts♡And thank you for fighting against this ideology that is destroying lives.

Expand full comment

I'm 65, and I remember seeing Mary Poppins in the theater when I was 6. I came home so enchanted by Julie Andrew's beauty that I wanted to grow up and be like her. I spent the next three days lost in a daydream, thinking about being an adult and wearing those long Victorian dresses that Mary Poppins wore. I told my five-year-old sister about this and she told Mom. In stentorian tones, Mom made it crystal clear that little boys did NOT dream of wearing dresses, and in fact, they were proud to grow up to be men. I desisted then and there.

Expand full comment

Good for your mom! Now "progressive" moms would go to town with the wish of a little boy to wear long Victorian dresses. Facebook pictures of you in dresses, proud posts about "destroy gender stereotypes" , multiple "likes" and "you are such a great mom"... Oy...

Expand full comment

I know. In some ways, things were better then.

Expand full comment

Thank you for sharing that. What a shame. Rigid sex roles back then. Have you ever wanted to wear dresses like that, or any other kind since then? Did you want to be female, or to just wear the dresses?

Expand full comment

No, I didn't want to wear female clothing after that. I remember also that at first I did want to be a girl, but, instantly, I knew that couldn't happen. So, I spent the next three days dreaming of wearing those dresses.

Expand full comment

Can anyone explain to me why the authors keep saying that the relevant age group to ROGD is 18 - 24? Instead of around puberty, or 12 - 13 ish?

Expand full comment

It's not that it's not relevant to 12-13 year-olds, it's that there wasn't any data generated for them. The 2015 Trans Survey was of self-defined adults only.

Expand full comment

I want to *WOW* these comments, instead of just *like* or <3

Expand full comment

It’s nothing short of infuriating how many with medical and scientific background go along with gender ideology. It’s so clearly fake.

Expand full comment

But remember the profits to be made!

Expand full comment

And also disheartening how many educators go along with it.

Expand full comment

I bet if they were honest, they would tell another story? Maybe fear has something to do with it? After all, losing your livelihood can be pretty devastating!

Expand full comment

I remember, as a child, reading the story of The Emperor's New Clothes and being confused by the fraudulent tailors' tactics. If they knew no one would see the "clothing," why would they say that only people who were incompetent at their jobs would not see it, rather than flattering people and saying that only the best and the brightest would be able to see through it.

Now I understand why.

Expand full comment

That book, the Emperors New Clothes, always stuck out as odd with me too. It made no sense to me. Maybe it’s time to pull the book out and read it to our ROGD teens again.

Expand full comment

Do it quickly before TRAs wise up to it and put it on some banned book list. :)

It is amazing though how this book applies to the current situation. People are so afraid they will be seen as incompetent in their wokeness if they acknowledge the truth.

Expand full comment

Such cult-like behavior, right?

Expand full comment

Yes. It's a good reminder that the scientific method, while being an amazing tool, is still only a tool. Tools can be misused.

Expand full comment

Read Alice Dreger's Galileo's Middle Finger she shows the multilayered failings of academia, investigative journalism, ethics review boards, and government regulators.

Expand full comment

I’ve always wanted to read that!

Expand full comment

Thanks for the reference. I’ll read it on Kindle.

Expand full comment

I misread “Age of Realization ..... Among Transgender Adults” as

"Age of Radicalisation..." which kind of shows you where we are

dentonyogacarter.substack.com

Expand full comment

Good news, some common sense at last. Science is about what can be observed. We mothers have noticed our children being given diagnoses of “gender dysphoria” which do not make sense. We know our children’s biological sex is unchangeable. We watched in dismay as our children suddenly self diagnosed gender dysphoria when other diagnoses seemed more fitting. Rapid onset indicates this is a social contagion.

Expand full comment

Yes. The scientific method is really just common sense applied really, really carefully and rigorously.

Expand full comment