On March 4, Science Friday on National Public Radio featured a doctoral student who asserted that there is a "robust evidence base" for medically transitioning children. This purported expert presented misleading and incomplete information. Listeners of this show need to hear from people who know better, and who are able to provide more .
My response to Science Friday: "Is it possible to not support Governor Abbott and still advocate to follow the science? In the March 4, 2022 Science Friday broadcast entitled, "Once Again, Transgender And Nonbinary Kids Are Under Attack in Texas", a guest claimed there is "robust evidence base" for medically transitioning children. That is simply not true and one would think a show with the word "science" in the title would have put in the modicum of effort needed to understand that. Sweden, France, Finland, and the UK are each taking a data-driven, science based reviewed of gender care and are releasing findings like this "“…low quality evidence that the treatments have the desired effect…” and that the treatments “…are potentially fraught with extensive and irreversible adverse consequences such as cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, infertility, increased cancer risk, and thrombosis.” While you may wish to dismiss the Governor as a Christian fundamentalist, transphobic, bigot, I don't think it's easy to do that for the health professionals in the four countries cited. In short, I am suggesting that the staff of NPR's Science Friday do their jobs."
It would be nice. But, the word "science" gets bandied about in a way more similar to "Scientology" than the original meaning of the word. Maybe it is like "gender" redefined as something other than "sex". Lawns are covered with "I believe" signs with a long list including "science" but science is not something a person is supposed to "believe in". That is not how the real thing works. Maybe we are confronting an unforgiving "Science Fundamentalism". Anyhow, I think the NPR listeners (of which I am no longer one) can be reached - it is just that they only hear a form of fundamentalist ideological thought marketed as "science". I think that language must be taken back before we can get anywhere.
I would love to hear whether you get any kind of response and what that is. A few years ago I wrote to state politicians and received back a phony civil rights sounding response.
Please let us know if there are any responses from NPR. Did anyone receive one? If so, did it acknowledge that there is another side to this - another view?
I wonder whether we might direct a letter like this at some medical organizations, hospitals, and the like? I once enjoyed NPR but my own view is that they've turned into a propaganda outlet for GI and the like. So, although I think that most progressives are very much misguided rather than child hating, I expect that this media outlet is not going to "care". It is a real problem because there are so many people who are not radical progressives but they only hear one view. Then they say things like "kids need to hear about how there are different people in the world." They don't understand that so many are gas-lighted about identity.
So, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by any kind of open minded response from NPR. Thx
Why do you start off by dismissing Gov. Abbott's actions are "politically motivated"? You will never protect children by agreeing with the progressives. They do not care at all about the children, that's why they are doing this to them.
Probably because it’s important to try to find some small point of agreement before launching into saying “but you were totally wrong about this other thing.” Probably also similar to the (personally I think incorrect) assertions that gender dysphoria might be because some kids are “really” trans (without explaining how that might be. There’s no evidence that there’s any medical condition involving a brain-body mismatch.)
Basically I think the letter writer is trying to sound like a reasonable person. I disagree a little bit on the opinions in the letter and the presumed strategy of some of the statements, but each person can choose to write their own letter. This version of a letter was just intended to give people ideas for their own, I think.
And also: assertions that progressives “do not care at all about the children” are just as ridiculous (and untrue) as assertions that conservatives don’t either: They’re all just mean-spirited, small-minded religious bigots who want to squash kids’ real selves right? If you see the obvious problems with those statements, I invite you to reconsider your statement about progressives. They do “care about children” (just as parents in imperial China who bound their daughters’ feet cared about their kids, their marriage prospects, and their social standing— to have unbound feet was as much a marker of “low class” as toothlessness or wearing rags was). They in fact care a lot, which is why the progressives are going to such extreme measures to “help.” Unfortunately this well-intentioned “help” is based on a lack of evidence and ends up harming kids.
That’s why we need to try to have these conversations in the most open and fair-minded way possible. We can’t afford to talk about how this group or that group are bad actors. It’s simply not the case. Everyone cares about children. They just have very different ideas about how best to show their care.
I agree about them caring. Most of them, at least. They "care" the wrong way. It is like a religion/cult. They are righteous and must save everyone. It reminds me of a quote.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."-C.S. Lewis
Wow. Thank you for this quote. Pretty much sums up what we see happening. Chilling. It can't bode well when the robber barons are also the omnipotent moral busybodies and have captured the rest of the busybodies that have so much power of our lives.
I agree about finding small amounts of common ground. I think it is our once trusted institutions that appear not to care about children and we need to turn them around. Although, I personally think NPR is hopeless (I once enjoyed it) - but it's listeners are not. I have good friends who respond to GI at school with: "kids will go out in the world eventually and they need to hear about other kinds of people". The GI pushers own the messaging. They are not hearing that kids are being led down an unhealthy path. I can understand how the Governor Abbot bashing rankles some. I think he is going about things wrong... but I live in a place where Texas bashing has long been a favorite pass-time and I think I might have been one of the guilty. We shouldn't dehumanize everyone in the state of Texas and their governor. Maybe, we could say that he is not going about this quite right (which I agree with) but that his heart could be in the right place - that he might care about his youngest constituents but should not punish parents. Making a claim that what he is doing is just politically motivated doesn't build understanding, IMO. Isn't our president (and aren't most Democrats) outside of Tulsi Gabbard beating the "Trans Kids" thing hard politically motivated?
Yes, this. Productive conversations are rooted in compassion and curiosity. We need to practice these same communication skills with our transIDed children. Nothing will get accomplished if we operate with black and white thinking, dehumanizing each other by claiming the other side is "evil." The vast majority of people are well-intentioned even if grossly misinformed. If we look for the humanity in others, and offer ways to "save face", we may stand a chance of being heard.
I just amended and emailed them. I also wrote a local NPR journalist who does a series called "Embodied" and who has been featuring one-sided trans-kids news the last few weeks. argh.
I just emailed them. Very good letter. One thing it doesn't mention though, is that added to all the cited deleterious effects of puberty blockers, there's been very little research done into the role puberty plays in brain development, and this is a potentially massive area of damage being done by this off-label medication.
Yes, well said. That is so important. I know that estrogen for boys causes decrease in brain size. They actually lose grey matter and vastly increases the risk of Alzheimer’s Disease and psychopathology.
You're right. Puberty isn't just about sexual development, it's the beginning of the long biological process by which children become adults in all respects -- including the development of a mature brain.
I emailed too.
FYI this post reviews the methods and data (so far as he could tell) and concludes that the study shows precisely the OPPOSITE of the claims shared widely through press releases and on the SciFri program: https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/researchers-found-puberty-blockers?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxOTk5MDYyLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo1MTcyMzk4NiwiXyI6IlRqSmdsIiwiaWF0IjoxNjQ5MjYwMTgwLCJleHAiOjE2NDkyNjM3ODAsImlzcyI6InB1Yi00ODMzIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.i45efkD4btfQyTdRGgZ-ydTjFxKmAhDewzirnJPS0vM&s=r
I just finished the article and was going to post it here. Thank you!!!!
My response to Science Friday: "Is it possible to not support Governor Abbott and still advocate to follow the science? In the March 4, 2022 Science Friday broadcast entitled, "Once Again, Transgender And Nonbinary Kids Are Under Attack in Texas", a guest claimed there is "robust evidence base" for medically transitioning children. That is simply not true and one would think a show with the word "science" in the title would have put in the modicum of effort needed to understand that. Sweden, France, Finland, and the UK are each taking a data-driven, science based reviewed of gender care and are releasing findings like this "“…low quality evidence that the treatments have the desired effect…” and that the treatments “…are potentially fraught with extensive and irreversible adverse consequences such as cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, infertility, increased cancer risk, and thrombosis.” While you may wish to dismiss the Governor as a Christian fundamentalist, transphobic, bigot, I don't think it's easy to do that for the health professionals in the four countries cited. In short, I am suggesting that the staff of NPR's Science Friday do their jobs."
I just read this article "Is transgenderism a cult?" https://ourduty.group/information/is-it-a-cult/ and a particular line made me think of posting it here:
"‘Science says…’ and then repeating cult doctrine."
It would be nice. But, the word "science" gets bandied about in a way more similar to "Scientology" than the original meaning of the word. Maybe it is like "gender" redefined as something other than "sex". Lawns are covered with "I believe" signs with a long list including "science" but science is not something a person is supposed to "believe in". That is not how the real thing works. Maybe we are confronting an unforgiving "Science Fundamentalism". Anyhow, I think the NPR listeners (of which I am no longer one) can be reached - it is just that they only hear a form of fundamentalist ideological thought marketed as "science". I think that language must be taken back before we can get anywhere.
I would love to hear whether you get any kind of response and what that is. A few years ago I wrote to state politicians and received back a phony civil rights sounding response.
Please let us know if there are any responses from NPR. Did anyone receive one? If so, did it acknowledge that there is another side to this - another view?
I wonder whether we might direct a letter like this at some medical organizations, hospitals, and the like? I once enjoyed NPR but my own view is that they've turned into a propaganda outlet for GI and the like. So, although I think that most progressives are very much misguided rather than child hating, I expect that this media outlet is not going to "care". It is a real problem because there are so many people who are not radical progressives but they only hear one view. Then they say things like "kids need to hear about how there are different people in the world." They don't understand that so many are gas-lighted about identity.
So, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by any kind of open minded response from NPR. Thx
Why do you start off by dismissing Gov. Abbott's actions are "politically motivated"? You will never protect children by agreeing with the progressives. They do not care at all about the children, that's why they are doing this to them.
Probably because it’s important to try to find some small point of agreement before launching into saying “but you were totally wrong about this other thing.” Probably also similar to the (personally I think incorrect) assertions that gender dysphoria might be because some kids are “really” trans (without explaining how that might be. There’s no evidence that there’s any medical condition involving a brain-body mismatch.)
Basically I think the letter writer is trying to sound like a reasonable person. I disagree a little bit on the opinions in the letter and the presumed strategy of some of the statements, but each person can choose to write their own letter. This version of a letter was just intended to give people ideas for their own, I think.
And also: assertions that progressives “do not care at all about the children” are just as ridiculous (and untrue) as assertions that conservatives don’t either: They’re all just mean-spirited, small-minded religious bigots who want to squash kids’ real selves right? If you see the obvious problems with those statements, I invite you to reconsider your statement about progressives. They do “care about children” (just as parents in imperial China who bound their daughters’ feet cared about their kids, their marriage prospects, and their social standing— to have unbound feet was as much a marker of “low class” as toothlessness or wearing rags was). They in fact care a lot, which is why the progressives are going to such extreme measures to “help.” Unfortunately this well-intentioned “help” is based on a lack of evidence and ends up harming kids.
That’s why we need to try to have these conversations in the most open and fair-minded way possible. We can’t afford to talk about how this group or that group are bad actors. It’s simply not the case. Everyone cares about children. They just have very different ideas about how best to show their care.
I agree about them caring. Most of them, at least. They "care" the wrong way. It is like a religion/cult. They are righteous and must save everyone. It reminds me of a quote.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."-C.S. Lewis
Wow. Thank you for this quote. Pretty much sums up what we see happening. Chilling. It can't bode well when the robber barons are also the omnipotent moral busybodies and have captured the rest of the busybodies that have so much power of our lives.
Yw, I have a thing for quotes. Lol
You are so right! Scary, indeed.
I agree about finding small amounts of common ground. I think it is our once trusted institutions that appear not to care about children and we need to turn them around. Although, I personally think NPR is hopeless (I once enjoyed it) - but it's listeners are not. I have good friends who respond to GI at school with: "kids will go out in the world eventually and they need to hear about other kinds of people". The GI pushers own the messaging. They are not hearing that kids are being led down an unhealthy path. I can understand how the Governor Abbot bashing rankles some. I think he is going about things wrong... but I live in a place where Texas bashing has long been a favorite pass-time and I think I might have been one of the guilty. We shouldn't dehumanize everyone in the state of Texas and their governor. Maybe, we could say that he is not going about this quite right (which I agree with) but that his heart could be in the right place - that he might care about his youngest constituents but should not punish parents. Making a claim that what he is doing is just politically motivated doesn't build understanding, IMO. Isn't our president (and aren't most Democrats) outside of Tulsi Gabbard beating the "Trans Kids" thing hard politically motivated?
Yes, this. Productive conversations are rooted in compassion and curiosity. We need to practice these same communication skills with our transIDed children. Nothing will get accomplished if we operate with black and white thinking, dehumanizing each other by claiming the other side is "evil." The vast majority of people are well-intentioned even if grossly misinformed. If we look for the humanity in others, and offer ways to "save face", we may stand a chance of being heard.
Thank you for writing this. I just submitted a response adding my personal experience to the mix.
Perhaps also of interest, a 2021 article from the Netherlands, the country where the use of puberty blockers was pioneered: https://4thwavenow.com/2021/03/16/dutch-puberty-blocker-pioneer-stop-blindly-adopting-our-research/
also, you can reach Ira Flatow directly here: iflatow@sciencefriday.com
This was marvelous. Thank you so much. When I reached out to them they blocked me : (
I can’t listen to NPR any more. So sad they’ve been captured so thoroughly.
Will do now. Thanks - it's always good to find ways to actually get the real information out there to a wider audience!
done! Excellent letter.
I just amended and emailed them. I also wrote a local NPR journalist who does a series called "Embodied" and who has been featuring one-sided trans-kids news the last few weeks. argh.
I just emailed them. Very good letter. One thing it doesn't mention though, is that added to all the cited deleterious effects of puberty blockers, there's been very little research done into the role puberty plays in brain development, and this is a potentially massive area of damage being done by this off-label medication.
Yes, well said. That is so important. I know that estrogen for boys causes decrease in brain size. They actually lose grey matter and vastly increases the risk of Alzheimer’s Disease and psychopathology.
You're right. Puberty isn't just about sexual development, it's the beginning of the long biological process by which children become adults in all respects -- including the development of a mature brain.
Thanks, done. I used to love Science Friday.....alas.
I just emailed them! Thank you so much!