Bless your heart. I’m sorry you were abused and let down by so many. Thank God you have a strong mom who fought for you. And good for you for being wise enough to listen to her and to that still small voice in your spirit that told you something was wrong.
Sinead, you are ana amazing young woman. Thank you for this very detailed account of what your journey was like. First of all, I am sorry you were sexually abused, I was too when I was very young and it took me 20 years before I was able to talk about it, forgive and heal. It was not your fault. It is also not your fault that you were influenced and groomed into believing the trans ideology. It is an evil cult that preys on confused children, and you were a victim. Your honesty helped me to understand the depth of this tragic nightmare happening around the world. You answered many questions I have had and now I understand much better how difficult it is to turn away or walk away from this influence. The internet is evil and fills innocent minds with ideas and conceptions that are not healthy, or real, or safe. Your Mother loves you very much and fought hard to save you. My wish for you is to heal completely, thrive and prosper. You are very strong, and your story will help many people on this sub stack to understand what their own children are going through. Best wishes.
Thank you so much Sinead for boldly sharing your experiences with us. G-d bless you & your Mum. Your account will help me in the work I do with parents, family, & young people over here in the US!
Although I believed I was trans, a psychologist affirming this was extremely important to me and proved that I was really trans "
Interesting that you felt a pretty much total stranger knew you better than your parents but that is what a cult does.
2) "By this time I had no ability to think critically and use my brain"
That is how cults work too. But as a 13 year old you critical thinking is not developed. That is why children should rely on trusted adults, parents, that know them best.
I'm sorry you went through this. Yes, "just three years" so much has happened to you. I heard many of these things that the trans community tells you to do or believe repeated from the my 24 y/o son when he identified and was so angry at us. Thank you for sharing your very personal story. You've been through a lot, learned a lot.
"I really felt the dysphoria start to lift and I started to stand up straight again." I can picture you standing up tall. This is an inspiring story, you are strong and resilient. Keep going Sinead!
Hi Sinead, thank you for telling your story so truthfully and with such courage. I’m extremely sorry you went through such a dreadful time 💛 You explain everything really well and it shines a light on what is happening to young people, especially those that have been traumatised and are vulnerable. Your description does confirm that teenagers and young people are being exposed to a cult-like ideology. Adults, especially those in positions of authority, must read your account and take action to prevent any other child or young person from harm. I wish you well and hope you’re recovering from the ordeal of the past few years X
Every bit of this makes my blood boil ,as usual. There will surely be a special place in Hell for many of these people ,and their cowardly enablers ,in all institutions everywhere !! If ,God forbid ,there is ever a "Genocide" ,it won't be these perverts who are the victims , that's for sure ,and the authorities will be equally responsible for the carnage !! Thanks ,JL ,for infuriating me yet again 😱😭🤮👍❤️
Can I first say thank you Sinead for your amazingly insightful essay. You articulate beautifully the insidious brainwashing and delusional, sick behaviours of so many in the medical “industry” who are quite literally ruining our youngsters lives. This unfortunately was the response from my now 19 year old daughter to whom I sent your article:
“I’m tired of the bullshit. Stop wingeing to me about how you don’t like that I’m trans. The fact of the matter is, testosterone is making me feel better than ever because of the changes it’s making, I simply do not care if you don’t like it”
She declared to our little family of 4 at the dinner table when she was 17 and a half “I want to announce I’m trans!”
Her Dad and I just looked at each other in utter shock/horror as we both realised simultaneously that this was going to be a nightmare going forward. We were right sadly. We’re only 18 months into this and she is already medicalising on the advice of our (Ex) family GP, recommended Therapist (found out she has a trans child herself and follows WPATH SOC8 protocols) and attends a gender clinic also referred to by our GP where her “Doctor” is a gay man who’s specialty area is HIV/AIDS. It’s unfathomable.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this and her reply. It's making me think of of Una-Jane's comment, below: the key to exiting a cult is curiosity.
I'm glad you're continuing to reach her, and are staying connected. Does she share the writings that influence her? It would be interesting to see them.
I tell people,
"In order to make wise decisions, it's necessary to read--not just listen to, but to read-- from sources across the ideological spectrum on this, or any other issue, and then use your critical thinking skills to think for yourself.
"And for any fast moving topic like this one, it's important to KEEP reading from all sides on the issue, for new information, and then, again, think for yourself."
I have bookmarked your account because it is so truthful and so clearly expressed, and would shine in a Court of law. The key to exit from the cult is curiosity: your mother's first, and then yours. We are all working to encourage curiosity. THANK YOU so much!
This is why the approach of Dr Az Hakeem here in the UK has worked well. He has pioneered (for ten years) "group meetings or therapy" for patients with varying degrees of Gender Dysphoria. By bringing the "newbys" into contact with those who have "gone before", the newbys generally decide to desist. See an article he wrote in 2021 for TransgenderTrend.com. https://www.transgendertrend.com/interview-az-hakeem/ "The value of group therapy for gender dysphoria patients". Like many psychiatrists he is a bit odd himself (a past "Goth" he wears tons of silver rings on his right hand only and never has a close shave!) but he is OK. I have met him.
Please, Sinead, I do hope that you have thanked your Mum? I don't mean just "thanked", but hugged, jumped up and kissed, held her hand, told her that she is the most wonderful mum in the world - and told your Dad that he is a pillar of strength and a wonderful husband to your Mum? I think a little recognition for your parents is in order, please? You are now 14 and you can give credit where it is due, can't you? You are ALL chips off the same block: you DON'T believe the Bull Shit! Good on all of you. Signed: a Transwidow, the abandoned wife of a Transsexual man (God, the BS he dished out to me!!!) We love you really.
Well done to you ,Sinead ,for this very honest and powerful piece and well done to your mum for her courage and strength in helping to pull you out of this nightmare. Yes ,it truly IS a cult and we should all be saying so ,loudly !! God Bless ,and have a great life 👍❤️
The dynamics of the cult shine through vibrantly. We need to approach this malignant monster as we would other dangerous social pathogens. Force-feed truth.
My heavens. What an incredible journey through the looking glass. Please consider reporting your former therapists to their licensure boards so this issue can be taken up. That is one way we can create change and end this international nightmare. You are loved. Thank you for helping us.
Hi. I'm reposting my reply to Baron's comment here, in case Baron's comment gets taken down. The information in my comment may be useful to others here.
**
Wtf?
Baron:
Sinead just shared a massive amount of her painful life story and background with us, in detail.
Yet you trash her 11-year old self, having shared ZERO of your own background or reason to believe YOU.
So, how do you happen to know a huge number of sexually abused autistic girls who were exposed to gender identity indoctrination online at age 11 and rejected it?
2. Exactly how many do you know of?
3. What studies of that population can you link us to?
Please provide the links.
And how many were in each study population?
4. What percent of the autistic girls who were sexually abused at age 11 and exposed to gender identity indoctrination at that age that you personally know of or were in studies you can link us to, who rejected that indoctrination and walked away from it?
4. Are you an autistic girl or woman who was sexually abused at age 11 who rejected gender identity indoctrination online and promptly rejected it, instead of getting swept up in it? If so, wouldn't that make an anecdotal study population of just one?
Even if you knew of several girls who fit all of Sinead's picture, but promptly walked away from indoctrination, how the heck does that mean she has a low IQ, etc? With that long list of vulnerabilities? How reasonable is it that every single person in her shoes not be affected by the lure, manipulations, and onslaught of what she was exposed to? Do you realize that it isn't just a handful of kids who are being recruited, but sudden massive numbers? What do you know about cult recruitment and manipulation?
Because what Sinead describes sure sounds like a number of elements of textbook cult indoctrination.
I'm looking at a copy on my desk of UC Berkeley psychology professor Margaret Singer's book, "Cults in Our Midst: The Hidden Menace in Our Everyday Lives" (1995).
Until her death ~10 years ago, Singer was considered the world's foremost expert in cult recruitment and indoctrination. At the time of the writing of her book, she had worked with more than 3,000 current and former members of cults and groups that use thought-reform processes. She had done 50 years of research for the US military, and as a clinical psychologist and professor, studying deceptive mind-control or thought-reform techniques.
Singer reserves the term "cult" only for those groups that use the most exteme, coordinated and covert systems of thought reform techniques to influence and control members.
Many of us on this substack have become aware of or they or a loved one has been exposed to at least some of those techniques from gender identity activists, even if they haven't articulated those as such, but describe them in articles and comments here, that indicate to me, from having read Singer's book, that these are classic thought reform and recruitment techniques.
Singer writes that "...those who join cults are no different than you or me."
I suggest you get this book from the library and read it.
Singer writes that the foremost message of her book is that absolutely "anyone--no matter what age or income level--could be susceptible to the covert and seductive nature of a cult. During periods of traumatic life changes, people are especially vulnerable to these masterful manipulators: a college student away from home for the first time, a grief-stricken widow in need of understanding and support, or a businessperson transferred by his or her employer to a new and unfamiliar community."
Sinead's sexual abuse certainly qualifies as such trauma.
Singer also writes that people recruited into cults tend to have above-average IQs, because cults seek out intelligent people who will be effective at recruiting other members.
I sometimes refer to gender identity as a cult, sometimes not. It functions differently than the cults we are familiar with, because it at least appears that there are no central leader(s). The many people coordinating it at many different levels, in many different ways, and for different goals have discovered viral recruitment techniques that people are motivated to share on their own. A prime example is the viral name-calling/accusation/guilt-trip/demonization that claims that anyone who disagrees with, or even listens to other viewpoints on gender identity must be a "religious conservative, hateful transphobic bigot."
Many of the most intelligent people in our society are being manipulated by that accusation, particularly college-educated people, including the U.S. president and vice president, and most elected officials of the Democratic party, university presidents, doctors, scientists, psychologists, and even some Republicans. (I'm one of many dissenting Democrats.)
And yet you expect an 11 -year old, sexually abused, autistic child to be immune to those same recruitment tactics?
Someone of low intelligence such as you describe would not necessarily even be recruitabale.
I don't understand what your possible motivation is for making such illogical, hostile, and hurtful accusations toward Sinead, or any other detransitioner, though it appears you've got an axe to grind with Marxism. I, too have some concerns with Marxism, though probably not to the same degree.
What I don't understand even there is that Sinead has now rejected gender identity ideology, yet you still trash her? Why?
You should be happy for her and glad that though she was recruited/manipulated so young, she is one who was able to think through it and escape its clutches.
I'd say she's pretty darn smart, and has developed some good critical thinking skills along the way.
She also has just written what, in my experience, is probably one of the most informative, helpful, and useful descriptions about how young kids--age 11!--are getting lied to, manipulated, and frightened into this ideological group, and turned against their parents and anyone who disagrees with it.
I admire and am grateful to her, as probably almost all of us here are.
If you really are interested in ridding society of this irrational, dangerous belief system and group and its manipulation techniques, may I suggest you reconsider, apologize to Sinead, and join us in our gratitude and admiration for her.
This is an absolutely terrific account of your experience. I am impressed that you have been able to reach back in your memory and reconstruct the behaviours of so many different individuals with whom you interacted. And I think you put your finger on something key: that the dysphoria/trans phenomenon is being CREATED in young people -- by the medical, therapeutic, and teaching communities, and of course by social media influencers. JammieDodger is one of the most dangerous of them all. I hope one day he/she comes to understand all the harm he has done to young people.
Yes, Sharon, you nailed it: that this is *created*.
Thank you. I need to go look up JammieDodger. And the other one Sinead mentioned.
If anyone knows of any other influencers I should watch, who have been key to recruiting kids or adults, I'd appreciate their names or channel names on YouTube. And links to specific videos on their channels you want others to see. I don't want to get on other social media, so YouTubers and their key videos are what I need, please.
let's consider how we could get Influencers to be less influential & have less access to kids.
WaPo yesterday had a long article on kids induced to horrible things by influencers. Of course it was not trans related, but what really is the short-circuit here? WaPo journalists report with vigor on bad online influence ... except refuse to see the truth of trans influencers.
Great question! I think it would be helpful to develop a list of things for parents to say to their kids, at various ages.
The one I always share with people is, "To make wise decisions on any given issue, it's necessary to read--not just listen to, but to read--directly from sources across the ideological spectrum on that issue, and then use your critical thinking skills to think for yourself."
I'm sure parents here could generate a whole list of ideas. How about starting that thread? Or perhaps you already have :)
An incredible story of a brave young woman who has an incredible Mom!
Not only is it child abuse, it is psychological emotional parent abuse and trauma.
Bless your heart. I’m sorry you were abused and let down by so many. Thank God you have a strong mom who fought for you. And good for you for being wise enough to listen to her and to that still small voice in your spirit that told you something was wrong.
Sinead, you are ana amazing young woman. Thank you for this very detailed account of what your journey was like. First of all, I am sorry you were sexually abused, I was too when I was very young and it took me 20 years before I was able to talk about it, forgive and heal. It was not your fault. It is also not your fault that you were influenced and groomed into believing the trans ideology. It is an evil cult that preys on confused children, and you were a victim. Your honesty helped me to understand the depth of this tragic nightmare happening around the world. You answered many questions I have had and now I understand much better how difficult it is to turn away or walk away from this influence. The internet is evil and fills innocent minds with ideas and conceptions that are not healthy, or real, or safe. Your Mother loves you very much and fought hard to save you. My wish for you is to heal completely, thrive and prosper. You are very strong, and your story will help many people on this sub stack to understand what their own children are going through. Best wishes.
Thank you so much Sinead for boldly sharing your experiences with us. G-d bless you & your Mum. Your account will help me in the work I do with parents, family, & young people over here in the US!
Congratulations!!
Two things you wrote struck me.
1)
Although I believed I was trans, a psychologist affirming this was extremely important to me and proved that I was really trans "
Interesting that you felt a pretty much total stranger knew you better than your parents but that is what a cult does.
2) "By this time I had no ability to think critically and use my brain"
That is how cults work too. But as a 13 year old you critical thinking is not developed. That is why children should rely on trusted adults, parents, that know them best.
I'm sorry you went through this. Yes, "just three years" so much has happened to you. I heard many of these things that the trans community tells you to do or believe repeated from the my 24 y/o son when he identified and was so angry at us. Thank you for sharing your very personal story. You've been through a lot, learned a lot.
"I really felt the dysphoria start to lift and I started to stand up straight again." I can picture you standing up tall. This is an inspiring story, you are strong and resilient. Keep going Sinead!
Hi Sinead, thank you for telling your story so truthfully and with such courage. I’m extremely sorry you went through such a dreadful time 💛 You explain everything really well and it shines a light on what is happening to young people, especially those that have been traumatised and are vulnerable. Your description does confirm that teenagers and young people are being exposed to a cult-like ideology. Adults, especially those in positions of authority, must read your account and take action to prevent any other child or young person from harm. I wish you well and hope you’re recovering from the ordeal of the past few years X
Every bit of this makes my blood boil ,as usual. There will surely be a special place in Hell for many of these people ,and their cowardly enablers ,in all institutions everywhere !! If ,God forbid ,there is ever a "Genocide" ,it won't be these perverts who are the victims , that's for sure ,and the authorities will be equally responsible for the carnage !! Thanks ,JL ,for infuriating me yet again 😱😭🤮👍❤️
Can I first say thank you Sinead for your amazingly insightful essay. You articulate beautifully the insidious brainwashing and delusional, sick behaviours of so many in the medical “industry” who are quite literally ruining our youngsters lives. This unfortunately was the response from my now 19 year old daughter to whom I sent your article:
“I’m tired of the bullshit. Stop wingeing to me about how you don’t like that I’m trans. The fact of the matter is, testosterone is making me feel better than ever because of the changes it’s making, I simply do not care if you don’t like it”
She declared to our little family of 4 at the dinner table when she was 17 and a half “I want to announce I’m trans!”
Her Dad and I just looked at each other in utter shock/horror as we both realised simultaneously that this was going to be a nightmare going forward. We were right sadly. We’re only 18 months into this and she is already medicalising on the advice of our (Ex) family GP, recommended Therapist (found out she has a trans child herself and follows WPATH SOC8 protocols) and attends a gender clinic also referred to by our GP where her “Doctor” is a gay man who’s specialty area is HIV/AIDS. It’s unfathomable.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this and her reply. It's making me think of of Una-Jane's comment, below: the key to exiting a cult is curiosity.
I'm glad you're continuing to reach her, and are staying connected. Does she share the writings that influence her? It would be interesting to see them.
I tell people,
"In order to make wise decisions, it's necessary to read--not just listen to, but to read-- from sources across the ideological spectrum on this, or any other issue, and then use your critical thinking skills to think for yourself.
"And for any fast moving topic like this one, it's important to KEEP reading from all sides on the issue, for new information, and then, again, think for yourself."
I have bookmarked your account because it is so truthful and so clearly expressed, and would shine in a Court of law. The key to exit from the cult is curiosity: your mother's first, and then yours. We are all working to encourage curiosity. THANK YOU so much!
Oh, I love this. Thank you Una-Jane!
This is why the approach of Dr Az Hakeem here in the UK has worked well. He has pioneered (for ten years) "group meetings or therapy" for patients with varying degrees of Gender Dysphoria. By bringing the "newbys" into contact with those who have "gone before", the newbys generally decide to desist. See an article he wrote in 2021 for TransgenderTrend.com. https://www.transgendertrend.com/interview-az-hakeem/ "The value of group therapy for gender dysphoria patients". Like many psychiatrists he is a bit odd himself (a past "Goth" he wears tons of silver rings on his right hand only and never has a close shave!) but he is OK. I have met him.
Please, Sinead, I do hope that you have thanked your Mum? I don't mean just "thanked", but hugged, jumped up and kissed, held her hand, told her that she is the most wonderful mum in the world - and told your Dad that he is a pillar of strength and a wonderful husband to your Mum? I think a little recognition for your parents is in order, please? You are now 14 and you can give credit where it is due, can't you? You are ALL chips off the same block: you DON'T believe the Bull Shit! Good on all of you. Signed: a Transwidow, the abandoned wife of a Transsexual man (God, the BS he dished out to me!!!) We love you really.
Well done to you ,Sinead ,for this very honest and powerful piece and well done to your mum for her courage and strength in helping to pull you out of this nightmare. Yes ,it truly IS a cult and we should all be saying so ,loudly !! God Bless ,and have a great life 👍❤️
The dynamics of the cult shine through vibrantly. We need to approach this malignant monster as we would other dangerous social pathogens. Force-feed truth.
My heavens. What an incredible journey through the looking glass. Please consider reporting your former therapists to their licensure boards so this issue can be taken up. That is one way we can create change and end this international nightmare. You are loved. Thank you for helping us.
Yes report the therapists. Nothing may come of it, but they will have to address the charges.
And report the therapists to your insurance company.
Yes! Report the therapists! Great idea. xx
Hi. I'm reposting my reply to Baron's comment here, in case Baron's comment gets taken down. The information in my comment may be useful to others here.
**
Wtf?
Baron:
Sinead just shared a massive amount of her painful life story and background with us, in detail.
Yet you trash her 11-year old self, having shared ZERO of your own background or reason to believe YOU.
So, how do you happen to know a huge number of sexually abused autistic girls who were exposed to gender identity indoctrination online at age 11 and rejected it?
2. Exactly how many do you know of?
3. What studies of that population can you link us to?
Please provide the links.
And how many were in each study population?
4. What percent of the autistic girls who were sexually abused at age 11 and exposed to gender identity indoctrination at that age that you personally know of or were in studies you can link us to, who rejected that indoctrination and walked away from it?
4. Are you an autistic girl or woman who was sexually abused at age 11 who rejected gender identity indoctrination online and promptly rejected it, instead of getting swept up in it? If so, wouldn't that make an anecdotal study population of just one?
Even if you knew of several girls who fit all of Sinead's picture, but promptly walked away from indoctrination, how the heck does that mean she has a low IQ, etc? With that long list of vulnerabilities? How reasonable is it that every single person in her shoes not be affected by the lure, manipulations, and onslaught of what she was exposed to? Do you realize that it isn't just a handful of kids who are being recruited, but sudden massive numbers? What do you know about cult recruitment and manipulation?
Because what Sinead describes sure sounds like a number of elements of textbook cult indoctrination.
I'm looking at a copy on my desk of UC Berkeley psychology professor Margaret Singer's book, "Cults in Our Midst: The Hidden Menace in Our Everyday Lives" (1995).
Until her death ~10 years ago, Singer was considered the world's foremost expert in cult recruitment and indoctrination. At the time of the writing of her book, she had worked with more than 3,000 current and former members of cults and groups that use thought-reform processes. She had done 50 years of research for the US military, and as a clinical psychologist and professor, studying deceptive mind-control or thought-reform techniques.
Singer reserves the term "cult" only for those groups that use the most exteme, coordinated and covert systems of thought reform techniques to influence and control members.
Many of us on this substack have become aware of or they or a loved one has been exposed to at least some of those techniques from gender identity activists, even if they haven't articulated those as such, but describe them in articles and comments here, that indicate to me, from having read Singer's book, that these are classic thought reform and recruitment techniques.
Singer writes that "...those who join cults are no different than you or me."
I suggest you get this book from the library and read it.
Singer writes that the foremost message of her book is that absolutely "anyone--no matter what age or income level--could be susceptible to the covert and seductive nature of a cult. During periods of traumatic life changes, people are especially vulnerable to these masterful manipulators: a college student away from home for the first time, a grief-stricken widow in need of understanding and support, or a businessperson transferred by his or her employer to a new and unfamiliar community."
Sinead's sexual abuse certainly qualifies as such trauma.
Singer also writes that people recruited into cults tend to have above-average IQs, because cults seek out intelligent people who will be effective at recruiting other members.
I sometimes refer to gender identity as a cult, sometimes not. It functions differently than the cults we are familiar with, because it at least appears that there are no central leader(s). The many people coordinating it at many different levels, in many different ways, and for different goals have discovered viral recruitment techniques that people are motivated to share on their own. A prime example is the viral name-calling/accusation/guilt-trip/demonization that claims that anyone who disagrees with, or even listens to other viewpoints on gender identity must be a "religious conservative, hateful transphobic bigot."
Many of the most intelligent people in our society are being manipulated by that accusation, particularly college-educated people, including the U.S. president and vice president, and most elected officials of the Democratic party, university presidents, doctors, scientists, psychologists, and even some Republicans. (I'm one of many dissenting Democrats.)
And yet you expect an 11 -year old, sexually abused, autistic child to be immune to those same recruitment tactics?
Someone of low intelligence such as you describe would not necessarily even be recruitabale.
I don't understand what your possible motivation is for making such illogical, hostile, and hurtful accusations toward Sinead, or any other detransitioner, though it appears you've got an axe to grind with Marxism. I, too have some concerns with Marxism, though probably not to the same degree.
What I don't understand even there is that Sinead has now rejected gender identity ideology, yet you still trash her? Why?
You should be happy for her and glad that though she was recruited/manipulated so young, she is one who was able to think through it and escape its clutches.
I'd say she's pretty darn smart, and has developed some good critical thinking skills along the way.
She also has just written what, in my experience, is probably one of the most informative, helpful, and useful descriptions about how young kids--age 11!--are getting lied to, manipulated, and frightened into this ideological group, and turned against their parents and anyone who disagrees with it.
I admire and am grateful to her, as probably almost all of us here are.
If you really are interested in ridding society of this irrational, dangerous belief system and group and its manipulation techniques, may I suggest you reconsider, apologize to Sinead, and join us in our gratitude and admiration for her.
Hurrah for championing a standard of evidence!
Thank you.
This is an absolutely terrific account of your experience. I am impressed that you have been able to reach back in your memory and reconstruct the behaviours of so many different individuals with whom you interacted. And I think you put your finger on something key: that the dysphoria/trans phenomenon is being CREATED in young people -- by the medical, therapeutic, and teaching communities, and of course by social media influencers. JammieDodger is one of the most dangerous of them all. I hope one day he/she comes to understand all the harm he has done to young people.
Yes, Sharon, you nailed it: that this is *created*.
Thank you. I need to go look up JammieDodger. And the other one Sinead mentioned.
If anyone knows of any other influencers I should watch, who have been key to recruiting kids or adults, I'd appreciate their names or channel names on YouTube. And links to specific videos on their channels you want others to see. I don't want to get on other social media, so YouTubers and their key videos are what I need, please.
Thanks, Sharon and all!
let's consider how we could get Influencers to be less influential & have less access to kids.
WaPo yesterday had a long article on kids induced to horrible things by influencers. Of course it was not trans related, but what really is the short-circuit here? WaPo journalists report with vigor on bad online influence ... except refuse to see the truth of trans influencers.
Great question! I think it would be helpful to develop a list of things for parents to say to their kids, at various ages.
The one I always share with people is, "To make wise decisions on any given issue, it's necessary to read--not just listen to, but to read--directly from sources across the ideological spectrum on that issue, and then use your critical thinking skills to think for yourself."
I'm sure parents here could generate a whole list of ideas. How about starting that thread? Or perhaps you already have :)