Appreciate this! One part that was so helpful is how you are not “outing them” as with a gay identity. I feel held hostage by this with my son, age 16, as he has not told any family members. Only those who will affirm him has he told!
We have experience with both in our family. When our son came out trans in 2014 we soon came to understand we were navigating a belief system with a rule book we did not have access to. In 2018 we came to learn that his younger brother was dealing with same sex attraction. We knew he would tell us when he was ready, which he did. There was no urgency here as in the case of our “trans” son. To conflate the two is detrimental.
If your son has come out at school and in other public spaces, I feel it’s totally appropriate for you to share with those in your circle. This very much impacts the whole family and you need the care and support just as much as he does. If he has only come out to a few peers, this is more hopeful and I believe best to make little of it. I’ve known several to desist in that case.
TIME. Yes, time is of the essence. These children need time to think, time to grow-up, time to mature, and time to process what it means to become an adult. This cult ideology influence has these kids in such a frenzy and in such a state of mind, that all they want to do is hurry and make life altering and devastating decisions. We need more time to help them, but time is running out and there is not enough time to rescue all these children. Time ran out for my nephew, and I grieve every day. So many of us have been robbed of time with our loved ones, the innocent who went down the rabbit hole. Some return and some do not. Heartbreaking. I wish time was on our side.
For years there has been a slow march to destroy families. When I was a teenager friend groups were considered more important than family- communes and hippies. Today the breakdown of family has been accelerated- if your family doesn't believe you ditch them and find another "family" who will. Teenagers and young adults providing the moral compass for each other leads to disaster in most cases.
It’s heartbreaking to read of these stories. Yes, Hannah Barnes’ book Time to Think (2023) shows us that time is what our children are not being given. Thank you for sharing.
The schools are not just hiding information from parents, they’re actively indoctrinating kids in pseudo-scientific trans ideology and feeling good about themselves for doing it. Activist teachers and administrators are not our children’s friends.
I bet 90% of teens do something their parents don't approve of. As a teen in the 60's I did plenty. However, I never had an adult help me. That is the big difference. In 1969 I was in 8th grade the school told my parents I was skipping class. My father asked what they were going to do about it and the school said, "We cannot do anything." My parents took me out of that school immediately. Maybe the school could not do anything but because the school at least told my parents they could and did. Thank you Mom and Dad. The parents NEED to know.
We all deserve to have a live son or daughter...the son or daughter we gave birth to. This paradigm is a lie from the pit of hell. And anyone who says that to loving, responsible parents should be ashamed of themselves. But these people have no shame. Or we wouldn't be where we are.
From the pubmed abstract: C. Results: Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not .
100%! I don't think all mothers are Munchausen by any stretch but many parents have been indoctrinated into this insanity under the pressure of an intense campaign of so called "human rights". Once you know the reality of what is happening medically, one cannot unknow it!
Of course not all parents have Munchausen. But the non affirming parents are suffering disproportionately because we dared try and keep our children safe from trans predators. I think any Gen X parent who knows very well that this wasn’t a thing in our youth has a duty to be suspicious about any new craze, especially after the lockdowns. How could the Munchausen Gen X parents fail their children like this? Are those parents under the influence of the covid mask still? Yes, it is them I blame for my suffering because their cowardice and submission has affected my family horrendously. Those Munchausen parents must know that it can’t be right to drug and mutilate a child. How can it be right that they get to keep their mutilated children but I lost mine because I taught her that she should preserve her bodily integrity?
I hear your complaints and I relate. I am seeing a lot of people jump to this syndrome as a conclusion and I'd like to remind myself and all of us parents that we are not tainted with that label in the course of this madness.
A child’s family is the first line of defense, not their school. It’s a parent’s job to know first. Parents have been asleep all during the tech boom. They ran and signed up for internet and bought mobile devices for their kids. Then they stopped spending meaningful time with their kids. Now, we blame schools and the internet. Well, it’s easier than blaming ourselves, isn’t it!
Blaming the parents for lax parenting is like blaming parents that their kids breathe polluted air. ... Our culture in general is sick. This trans stuff is coming from many sources of power & authority. Parents can't turn back this tide just by themselves.
Growing up in the 70s and 80s I hid so much stuff from my parents, including a dodgy group of friends that included some middle-aged males. Luckily for me, they were all fellow sci-fi geeks who had no nefarious other motives beyond planning the next Doctor Who get-together, but kids have been doing these things since time immemorial. For me, I lived in the days where I couldn't even make a local phone call, forget a long distance call, without my parents knowing because we had to pay for every call and my dad would totally have seen that on the bill. I used all my limited cash to buy long distance phone cards so they wouldn't know who I was talking to.
Blame the groomers, not the blindsided parents. Not everyone can homeschool their kids and know everyone their kids are talking to.
Don't let anyone tell you you weren't involved enough so it's your fault. You will find plenty of parents who maybe spent more time around their kids physically, and were nonetheless blindsided by this cult.
That is a really great point. There is only so much anyone can do to keep a teen out of trouble without being so controlling and sheltering that it seriously hinders their development in other negative ways. Teens have always hidden things from their parents, and many of them have been finding ways to get around parental supervision for many, many years. A determined teen can be extremely sneaky and resourceful.
To an extent, you are right, Lisa, but peer influence is incredibly powerful. Especially for the vulnerable kids and young adults (which most of these are.) I have been in contact with parents for ten years now and have been facilitating a parent support group for six. I can attest that these are some of the most loving and involved parents I’ve known. Flip phones and extra involvement has not been enough to keep this evil away. There is no sure method to protect these vulnerable kids.
What we know now, I say SHAME on schools for socially transitioning children without letting parents know. This is and has been happening in our school district.
If you had told me fifteen years ago that grown men would be successfully convincing kids to chemically castrate and mutilate themselves via social media I would have thought you were a nutter. No one could see this specific danger coming.
Exactly. We were very involved with our autistic son who graduated at 16. We thought we were being careful by only giving him a flip phone but had no way of keeping up with the explosion of social connections. We knew nothing of Tumblr and that our son was being pursued by groomers. We thought he was going to be in good hands at the university. Instead he got sent to a gender affirming counselor who told him in a few sessions that he wasn’t autistic but trans and lined him up with an endocrinologist.
Our youngest son was able to arrange a meetup two years ago. I need to be careful in sharing a lot of detail here but he was very troubled by what he saw. When we contacted the authorities we were told they have so many of these cases and don’t have the resources to pursue them all and won’t unless we know he is being held against his will. I have had to surrender these circumstances and focus on the family we have with us that bring such joy. But, to be honest, sometimes it feels like there is an unceasing grip on my heart. Thanks for asking. And you?
Our boy, also autistic, and a good student once, run away from home a year ago, at almost 18, so the authorities also couldn't help.
His girlfriend's (yes, he has a girlfriend, so he says he's a lesbian now) family is supporting him, I don't know why. He only told us 4 months ago, so I guess I'm a newbie here.
Yes, nine years this month. It didn’t take long before I started connecting with other families. I remember thinking early on, “Dear God, are they all autistic?” Especially in the boys.
My heart breaks for you. This is all so new and sudden for you. I remember it well.
Yep. There specifics change with every new generation, but there have always been dangerous influences in the world. 50 or 100 years ago, I doubt too many parents would have ever thought their kids would be groomed and molested by their own clergy, but look how many kids have been abused in that context. No one could ever know or guard against every single threat that's out there, but I would bet it's always going to be a mistake to think that you know for sure something is safe for your child, especially once they reach the teen years and have the knowledge and independence to hide things pretty effectively.
Actually I now think we need to positively become The Enemy. This cult will stop when we make it stop. I blame the state and also the Munchausen Mothers who collude with this ideology, causing horrific harm to children and to non affirming parents.
I am so, so sorry about what happened to your family, and to your husband especially. It's incredibly sad, and unfortunately I know it's not a unique situation at all these days. But, I don't think it's fair to place blame on every affirming parent. Certainly, I've seen and heard of a few who absolutely seemed to be fueled at least in part by the attention that they, the parent(s), receive from having a child transition. But, I also know of many, and personally know several, parents who truly do love their children and just want them to be happy and successful in life, same as most of us. Sometimes, they are naive, maybe struggle with understanding medical stuff in general and especially medical research, and/or struggling with their own health concerns or just working too many hours trying to take care of their kids and make ends meet. Other times, they see their child threatening or attempting suicide, cutting, etc, and believe the child's heartfelt assertions that they are doomed to be miserable and will kill themselves if they don't transition immediately. Many of these parents actually do worry greatly about side effects and future implications, but don't know what else to do with their child who repeatedly threatens suicide and harms themselves when they are held back from medicalization. I may not agree with their choices, nor would I necessarily do the same thing for my own child, but I cannot fault a concerned, loving parent for doing what they truly believe is the best thing for a troubled child. There are other situations, where children have other mental health concerns like substance abuse or other mental illness, where I feel the same way: I might very much disagree with how the parents choose to address it, but I can still see that they are really trying to do what is best for their child.
I don't think we can legitimately fight for parents to have more rights, while at the same time limiting that to only the parents who agree with us about what is best for their child.
Jen, I feel you have done well in explaining the complexities of these situations and with much grace. I have sat with parents who have thoughtfully considered the best path for their unstable child, trusting the “experts.” They are just as broken over it all. To some, sadly, it is a religion in which they are happy to sacrifice their children to what they feel is a worthy call.
What I would appreciate more clarity on is what rights you are referring to? We as parents have a right to know if our child is being socially transitioned in schools where they have no right to take part in this powerful intervention without parental consent. One teacher who assumed I would sympathize, told me how difficult the pronoun issue was during parent conferences when both parent and child were in the room. She really felt she was keeping the child “safe” by withholding this information from the parent.
I guess what I was trying to say is that, if we want to be allowed to determine what is best for our own children, then we need to allow other parents that same right, within the bounds of the law. So, in terms of social transition at school, it sounds like you are essentially saying that you want to be the one to choose whether your child socially transitions (or medically transitions). You want to be able to choose and direct any medical or psychological interventions. You would like the school and other involved parties to treat you as the authority on your own child, and to work with you, and not to assume that you are a safety risk to your child simply because of your opinion on what is the best way to handle their psychological distress.
So, I would submit that we need to allow other parents those same things with regard to their own children. The same way we accept that other parents will have different rules on when the kid gets a smartphone, how closely they supervise their Internet use and social activities, when they start driving and what the rules are, what religious traditions they observe if any.
I guess my opinion on this is partly informed by my experience working in the health care system. I have worked in pediatric settings, and have seen many situations where parents disagree with medical recommendations. It may be that they don't want the child to receive a particular medication or procedure, that they want to continue life support even when the doctors say there is no chance of meaningful neurological recovery, that they want to stop life support or limit aggressive interventions before doctors would prefer. In some cases, due to religious or other beliefs, they may refuse any intervention at all, no matter what the problem is. Some religions do not allow blood transfusions. Now, legally, the hospital can and will go to court when they feel the child's life is at imminent risk, but that's a very high bar. The risk has to be more than theoretical-meaning that, the child has to actually show signs that they are beginning to physically or mentally decompensate due to the lack of treatment, and there has to be a very strong likelihood that that decompensation will continue to death or severe, long-term disability or suffering, and that the proposed treatment will help prevent this, AND that there is no available compromise that would help. So, for example, in a case where a child has cancer and a parent wants to try homeopathic or religious healing, the medical system needs to be able to demonstrate that the child's health is currently dangerously compromised and is not improving with the parents' chosen intervention. At that point, the court will order the treatment or, in extreme cases or if the parent refuses to comply with the court order. the state will take legal or even physical custody of the child until the issue is resolved.
So, having seen numerous situations like this play out in different ways, while I may vehemently disagree with the choices other parents may make for their children, I have seen that in order for any parent to be in charge of their child's care, then all parents have to be allowed that same authority unless and until there is evidence that the child is actually being harmed. This is where I'm hoping the Cass review might eventually be especially useful: if the NHS is able to complete their outcomes study that was started with the review, and if other studies looking at outcomes after social, medical, or no transition are able to get off the ground and produce results, then that might provide the evidence needed to demonstrate that transition is definitely a bad choice for any kid. Currently, though, while there is plenty of evidence of risks of medical transition, there is far less actual evidence of how these kids who are transitioned early ultimately fare as adults, as opposed to kids who are not transitioned. There are anecdotes from detransitioners, but we can't yet say how (a)typical their experience is. Until such evidence is in place, I think we need to allow parents some leeway in choosing between the legal, available options for their own children. Even if it turns our own stomachs a bit out of concern for that child's future.
I just cannot see a way to both protect our own kids from a one-size-fits-(none)all, affirm-everybody, approach, AND also to demand that other parents follow OUR approach with their kids or be deemed bad parents or Munchausen patients. The whole concept of parental rights rests on the idea, frequently repeated on this forum, that generally speaking, parents know and love their own children best, and therefore the default position must be to allow parents to use their own judgement in determining what is best for their own child.
Sorry that is so lengthy. I hope i make sense? Obviously, this is all just my own opinion, and I respect that some people may disagree.
Thank you for your answer! I fully understand your reasoning. The families of both my husband and I are primarily in education and healthcare. (My husband in healthcare.) We’ve had so many conversations regarding the complex issues you address above. The polarization makes it so difficult to dialogue which makes me appreciate the time you have given to offer your thoughtful consideration to these issues.
I have had individuals suggest I use my voice in bringing a less polarized view to our local school board. I wrote the above as a sampling for feedback. We are a “Trans-Refuge State” with medical and surgical transitions being done in our city and a very aggressive trans agenda in our community. I find stepping into that arena very intimidating.
All things considered, I feel my place for now is to remain across the table with anyone wrestling with these issues, desiring to provide a listening ear, comfort, and hope.
I see your point but what I find puzzling is that none of this existed in our days. I take it that most parents going through this are Gen X. Maybe I’m wrong but if this wasn’t around before why would it be a thing now? Clearly it only takes a little intellectual curiosity to work out that this is a new craze. And as such we have a duty to be suspicious. I was brought up in very strict conservatism and although I had a period of wokery when I was younger this didn’t last long. I always knew that men were men and women were women. I was 12 when I used to listen to Culture Club and my grandfather had a “conversation” with me about the evils of cross dressing. We don’t forget our upbringing. So what went wrong? Why has Gen X lost it? Why are Gen X parents allowing this?
Well, this is just my own conjecture combined with my observations of the people I know (which is probably not at all a representative sample):
1. Certainly the craze among kids, or the trend, wasn't around, but the concept became familiar to the general public-though rarely talked about-by the 90s, and actually medical transition has been around for nearly a century. But, there have been media profiles of an occasional trans person for several decades now (I can't recall the name, but there was that American veteran-i think-who traveled to Germany for MtF surgery and then returned and was profiled in the mainstream media. That's just one example.) So, it was rare, but out there. And it seems that the few who were willing and able to spend the money (since transition wasn't covered by insurance and in many cases wasn't available locally), and to go through the gatekeeping process that used to exist, were more sympathetic to people who had never heard of the concept before than today's TRAs. At least the old-school trans adults really tried to pass, always, and generally weren't making the kinds of demands being made today. So, when someone's child comes to them saying they're trans and feeling suicidal over it, there is a point of reference there.
2. I think there are still many parents out there, at least until very recently (since the Cass review started getting real attention from mainstream media, which just happened in the last few weeks) who really didn't know just how much of a trend this has become. Not everyone has the time, inclination, or literacy level to browse through medical research themselves. And this leads me to...
3. The politicization of "trans rights" has in many ways done a disservice to these parents and their children. Unfortunately, until very recently, the only media sources that were skeptical were right-wing outlets. There is a large segment of the country that has long viewed those outlets as conspiracy theorist, outrage machines doing the bidding of the far right and the evangelical-Catholic lobby. So, many parents probably saw that gender critical views were confined to those outlets and those politicians that lean hard right, and assumed that those views were either complete bs or just simply didn't align with their own values. In cases like this, sometimes the Identity of the messenger can obscure the validity of the message. This is especially true when...
4. Most parents these days whose children present with severe mental distress of any kind seek medical help. Either by heading to a doctor or therapist, or by looking to what we've been told are "reputable and reliable" online sources-hospital system and university Web sites, the AAP, and so on. These have generally all strongly advised parents to affirm and to strongly consider medicalization.
5. I'm struggling to word this one in a way that doesn't sound preachy or condescending, because that's not my intent at all. But, even among us dinosaurs in Gen X, not everyone had the same type of conservative upbringing that you did. I say this because you mentioned we don't forget our upbringing. That's true. But many Gen Xers were brought up with more of a "accept and be kind and tolerant" view that unfortunately is vulnerable to exploitation. And others did have a conservative upbringing but were left very hurt by certain aspects of it-outright abuse, or otherwise. I know numerous middle aged adults (adults of all ages actually) who were raised in households with similar views to those you describe in your upbringing, but who also experienced abuse from those same households. That has caused them to outright reject many aspects of that upbringing. I think we all, to some extent, vow not to make the same (what we see as) mistakes our parents did, with our own children. So, someone who was raised by an outright cruel parent who also preached about "the evils of crossdressing," say, may be trying to do better with their own child, and may therefore decide that since their parent who hurt them was against it, that they should allow it. If that makes sense...
So, again, I think there are many parents who, when confronted with a child in crisis who insists they need to transition, may be concerned about it being a trend, but also are not sure what else to do, and the advice they are given by sources they trust is to affirm. After all, no one wants their child to be in pain, or to harm themselves. And if the child maintains that they are in severe distress, and threatens to kill theirself, and is self-harming, parents feel under pressure to do something to help. They may not feel they have time to really do intense research into the subject, and may not see a need to look further when all the medical authorities in the US are telling them that the child is right, and affirmation is evidence based and safe and effective.
Again, I have no doubt that there are parents who have more selfish motives for affirming. But I have seen that it is possible for a loving, concerned parent to end up on an affirmation-based path. I hope I've somewhere helped explain how?
Natalia, I think some parents are celebrating this, but many, like the ones on PITT, know the dangers of affirmation. It's very difficult when medical professionals won't put a stop to this Mengele-type experiment. In the U.S, there's a cross-dresser appointed as the head of HHS, advocating for all these harms against children and youth. It's beyond absurd.
I think you're definitely correct that parents need more leadership, and responsibility, from the medical system. It's time for the US medical system to stop insisting that affirmation and transition is settled science, at the very least. As long as there is a nearly unison recommendation to affirm from the medical, mental health, and education systems, some parents will still be making decisions without all the facts.
It's also very important that the mainstream media report on the concerns about harms. It's encouraging to see that the New York Times just published a pretty balanced interview with Dr Cass, in which she was allowed to present a general overview of her findings and recommendation, and which emphasized, starting with the headline, that the US system and it's approach to this issue is rapidly becoming an outlier. It is so important that this issue not be so politically polarized; otherwise, many very loving and concerned parents who tend toward the liberal side will only see criticism of the trans movement coming from right-wing sources that many liberals view with heavy suspicion. While the political aspect has certainly helped push this dialogue into the view of most of society, I fear it's too polarized and that gender critical views, and concerns about medicalizing kids, have become associated with the political right in the minds of many casual observers. And that's a big problem, because in our nearly-evenly-divided country, that means that there are a lot of people who will have an immediate negative reaction towards any skepticism about the trans movement. And since educators, doctors, lawyers, psychologists, etc are much more likely to lean left than right, that means that a majority of those who advise parents and teach kids are going to have limited exposure to the evidence against affirmation and medicalization right from the start.
I might back the idea of making public examples of those who choose harm and deviancy against children. A special vengeance to those who have taken an oath to “do no harm” and protect the population in order to access others using that trust to harm them. Bring back the “day of guillotines” of sorts to show there will be zero tolerance and swift justice to the families who have been left to suffer b/c of their choice to put profits over people.
"Which would you rather have, a live son or a dead daughter?"
This is extortion, to coerce parents into paying.
Hire an attorney and sue them for blackmail.
Appreciate this! One part that was so helpful is how you are not “outing them” as with a gay identity. I feel held hostage by this with my son, age 16, as he has not told any family members. Only those who will affirm him has he told!
We have experience with both in our family. When our son came out trans in 2014 we soon came to understand we were navigating a belief system with a rule book we did not have access to. In 2018 we came to learn that his younger brother was dealing with same sex attraction. We knew he would tell us when he was ready, which he did. There was no urgency here as in the case of our “trans” son. To conflate the two is detrimental.
If your son has come out at school and in other public spaces, I feel it’s totally appropriate for you to share with those in your circle. This very much impacts the whole family and you need the care and support just as much as he does. If he has only come out to a few peers, this is more hopeful and I believe best to make little of it. I’ve known several to desist in that case.
If someone wants to mutilate your children, the most important thing to understand is that there are things worth dying for.
TIME. Yes, time is of the essence. These children need time to think, time to grow-up, time to mature, and time to process what it means to become an adult. This cult ideology influence has these kids in such a frenzy and in such a state of mind, that all they want to do is hurry and make life altering and devastating decisions. We need more time to help them, but time is running out and there is not enough time to rescue all these children. Time ran out for my nephew, and I grieve every day. So many of us have been robbed of time with our loved ones, the innocent who went down the rabbit hole. Some return and some do not. Heartbreaking. I wish time was on our side.
For years there has been a slow march to destroy families. When I was a teenager friend groups were considered more important than family- communes and hippies. Today the breakdown of family has been accelerated- if your family doesn't believe you ditch them and find another "family" who will. Teenagers and young adults providing the moral compass for each other leads to disaster in most cases.
They are abusing parents and terrorizing them. you need laws and warrior to destroy your familes enemy
It’s heartbreaking to read of these stories. Yes, Hannah Barnes’ book Time to Think (2023) shows us that time is what our children are not being given. Thank you for sharing.
The schools are not just hiding information from parents, they’re actively indoctrinating kids in pseudo-scientific trans ideology and feeling good about themselves for doing it. Activist teachers and administrators are not our children’s friends.
truth
I’m truly sorry for all you & your family are going through. I couldn’t agree more, that we parents need more time.
❤️🙏🕊️
I bet 90% of teens do something their parents don't approve of. As a teen in the 60's I did plenty. However, I never had an adult help me. That is the big difference. In 1969 I was in 8th grade the school told my parents I was skipping class. My father asked what they were going to do about it and the school said, "We cannot do anything." My parents took me out of that school immediately. Maybe the school could not do anything but because the school at least told my parents they could and did. Thank you Mom and Dad. The parents NEED to know.
Another Inconvenient Truth: Following "Gender Affirming" surgery, attempted suicides are 12 times higher: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38699117/.
"Would you rather have a live daughter or a dead son?" is a lie and not supported by any evidence whatsoever.
I do hope we are nearing the end of this insanity.
Europe is closing clinics. The USA is doubling down.
Maybe $3.7 trillion per year has something to do with it
We all deserve to have a live son or daughter...the son or daughter we gave birth to. This paradigm is a lie from the pit of hell. And anyone who says that to loving, responsible parents should be ashamed of themselves. But these people have no shame. Or we wouldn't be where we are.
From the pubmed abstract: C. Results: Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not .
Kinda makes you wonder what the real meaning behind “ROGD” is and to whom it actually applies.
Sinister.
100%! I don't think all mothers are Munchausen by any stretch but many parents have been indoctrinated into this insanity under the pressure of an intense campaign of so called "human rights". Once you know the reality of what is happening medically, one cannot unknow it!
#Endwpathnow. Fire Rachel Levine. #cassreport
Of course not all parents have Munchausen. But the non affirming parents are suffering disproportionately because we dared try and keep our children safe from trans predators. I think any Gen X parent who knows very well that this wasn’t a thing in our youth has a duty to be suspicious about any new craze, especially after the lockdowns. How could the Munchausen Gen X parents fail their children like this? Are those parents under the influence of the covid mask still? Yes, it is them I blame for my suffering because their cowardice and submission has affected my family horrendously. Those Munchausen parents must know that it can’t be right to drug and mutilate a child. How can it be right that they get to keep their mutilated children but I lost mine because I taught her that she should preserve her bodily integrity?
I hear your complaints and I relate. I am seeing a lot of people jump to this syndrome as a conclusion and I'd like to remind myself and all of us parents that we are not tainted with that label in the course of this madness.
I agree, and yes, Dick Levine and his traffic cop attire need to go.
A child’s family is the first line of defense, not their school. It’s a parent’s job to know first. Parents have been asleep all during the tech boom. They ran and signed up for internet and bought mobile devices for their kids. Then they stopped spending meaningful time with their kids. Now, we blame schools and the internet. Well, it’s easier than blaming ourselves, isn’t it!
Blaming the parents for lax parenting is like blaming parents that their kids breathe polluted air. ... Our culture in general is sick. This trans stuff is coming from many sources of power & authority. Parents can't turn back this tide just by themselves.
Growing up in the 70s and 80s I hid so much stuff from my parents, including a dodgy group of friends that included some middle-aged males. Luckily for me, they were all fellow sci-fi geeks who had no nefarious other motives beyond planning the next Doctor Who get-together, but kids have been doing these things since time immemorial. For me, I lived in the days where I couldn't even make a local phone call, forget a long distance call, without my parents knowing because we had to pay for every call and my dad would totally have seen that on the bill. I used all my limited cash to buy long distance phone cards so they wouldn't know who I was talking to.
Blame the groomers, not the blindsided parents. Not everyone can homeschool their kids and know everyone their kids are talking to.
We homeschooled and distance-schooled our teenager. It didn't help.
We had to keep jobs. And what can you do if your child goes to lengths to hide information from you?
Don't let anyone tell you you weren't involved enough so it's your fault. You will find plenty of parents who maybe spent more time around their kids physically, and were nonetheless blindsided by this cult.
That is a really great point. There is only so much anyone can do to keep a teen out of trouble without being so controlling and sheltering that it seriously hinders their development in other negative ways. Teens have always hidden things from their parents, and many of them have been finding ways to get around parental supervision for many, many years. A determined teen can be extremely sneaky and resourceful.
Especially when the state grooms them and helps them.
To an extent, you are right, Lisa, but peer influence is incredibly powerful. Especially for the vulnerable kids and young adults (which most of these are.) I have been in contact with parents for ten years now and have been facilitating a parent support group for six. I can attest that these are some of the most loving and involved parents I’ve known. Flip phones and extra involvement has not been enough to keep this evil away. There is no sure method to protect these vulnerable kids.
What we know now, I say SHAME on schools for socially transitioning children without letting parents know. This is and has been happening in our school district.
If you had told me fifteen years ago that grown men would be successfully convincing kids to chemically castrate and mutilate themselves via social media I would have thought you were a nutter. No one could see this specific danger coming.
Exactly. We were very involved with our autistic son who graduated at 16. We thought we were being careful by only giving him a flip phone but had no way of keeping up with the explosion of social connections. We knew nothing of Tumblr and that our son was being pursued by groomers. We thought he was going to be in good hands at the university. Instead he got sent to a gender affirming counselor who told him in a few sessions that he wasn’t autistic but trans and lined him up with an endocrinologist.
I'm so sorry! How are you holding on? Is he still there or did you manage to get him home?
Our youngest son was able to arrange a meetup two years ago. I need to be careful in sharing a lot of detail here but he was very troubled by what he saw. When we contacted the authorities we were told they have so many of these cases and don’t have the resources to pursue them all and won’t unless we know he is being held against his will. I have had to surrender these circumstances and focus on the family we have with us that bring such joy. But, to be honest, sometimes it feels like there is an unceasing grip on my heart. Thanks for asking. And you?
So it's been going on for many years? Big sigh...
Our boy, also autistic, and a good student once, run away from home a year ago, at almost 18, so the authorities also couldn't help.
His girlfriend's (yes, he has a girlfriend, so he says he's a lesbian now) family is supporting him, I don't know why. He only told us 4 months ago, so I guess I'm a newbie here.
Yes, nine years this month. It didn’t take long before I started connecting with other families. I remember thinking early on, “Dear God, are they all autistic?” Especially in the boys.
My heart breaks for you. This is all so new and sudden for you. I remember it well.
Autistic kids, boys and girls alike, are particularly vulnerable to trans ideology.
Yep. There specifics change with every new generation, but there have always been dangerous influences in the world. 50 or 100 years ago, I doubt too many parents would have ever thought their kids would be groomed and molested by their own clergy, but look how many kids have been abused in that context. No one could ever know or guard against every single threat that's out there, but I would bet it's always going to be a mistake to think that you know for sure something is safe for your child, especially once they reach the teen years and have the knowledge and independence to hide things pretty effectively.
Very very powerful. Time is what they will never give you because they understand time's power. God help us all.
Yes, parents need time and they need support. Parents are not the enemy as trans proponents and activists make them out to be.
Actually I now think we need to positively become The Enemy. This cult will stop when we make it stop. I blame the state and also the Munchausen Mothers who collude with this ideology, causing horrific harm to children and to non affirming parents.
I am so, so sorry about what happened to your family, and to your husband especially. It's incredibly sad, and unfortunately I know it's not a unique situation at all these days. But, I don't think it's fair to place blame on every affirming parent. Certainly, I've seen and heard of a few who absolutely seemed to be fueled at least in part by the attention that they, the parent(s), receive from having a child transition. But, I also know of many, and personally know several, parents who truly do love their children and just want them to be happy and successful in life, same as most of us. Sometimes, they are naive, maybe struggle with understanding medical stuff in general and especially medical research, and/or struggling with their own health concerns or just working too many hours trying to take care of their kids and make ends meet. Other times, they see their child threatening or attempting suicide, cutting, etc, and believe the child's heartfelt assertions that they are doomed to be miserable and will kill themselves if they don't transition immediately. Many of these parents actually do worry greatly about side effects and future implications, but don't know what else to do with their child who repeatedly threatens suicide and harms themselves when they are held back from medicalization. I may not agree with their choices, nor would I necessarily do the same thing for my own child, but I cannot fault a concerned, loving parent for doing what they truly believe is the best thing for a troubled child. There are other situations, where children have other mental health concerns like substance abuse or other mental illness, where I feel the same way: I might very much disagree with how the parents choose to address it, but I can still see that they are really trying to do what is best for their child.
I don't think we can legitimately fight for parents to have more rights, while at the same time limiting that to only the parents who agree with us about what is best for their child.
Jen, I feel you have done well in explaining the complexities of these situations and with much grace. I have sat with parents who have thoughtfully considered the best path for their unstable child, trusting the “experts.” They are just as broken over it all. To some, sadly, it is a religion in which they are happy to sacrifice their children to what they feel is a worthy call.
What I would appreciate more clarity on is what rights you are referring to? We as parents have a right to know if our child is being socially transitioned in schools where they have no right to take part in this powerful intervention without parental consent. One teacher who assumed I would sympathize, told me how difficult the pronoun issue was during parent conferences when both parent and child were in the room. She really felt she was keeping the child “safe” by withholding this information from the parent.
I guess what I was trying to say is that, if we want to be allowed to determine what is best for our own children, then we need to allow other parents that same right, within the bounds of the law. So, in terms of social transition at school, it sounds like you are essentially saying that you want to be the one to choose whether your child socially transitions (or medically transitions). You want to be able to choose and direct any medical or psychological interventions. You would like the school and other involved parties to treat you as the authority on your own child, and to work with you, and not to assume that you are a safety risk to your child simply because of your opinion on what is the best way to handle their psychological distress.
So, I would submit that we need to allow other parents those same things with regard to their own children. The same way we accept that other parents will have different rules on when the kid gets a smartphone, how closely they supervise their Internet use and social activities, when they start driving and what the rules are, what religious traditions they observe if any.
I guess my opinion on this is partly informed by my experience working in the health care system. I have worked in pediatric settings, and have seen many situations where parents disagree with medical recommendations. It may be that they don't want the child to receive a particular medication or procedure, that they want to continue life support even when the doctors say there is no chance of meaningful neurological recovery, that they want to stop life support or limit aggressive interventions before doctors would prefer. In some cases, due to religious or other beliefs, they may refuse any intervention at all, no matter what the problem is. Some religions do not allow blood transfusions. Now, legally, the hospital can and will go to court when they feel the child's life is at imminent risk, but that's a very high bar. The risk has to be more than theoretical-meaning that, the child has to actually show signs that they are beginning to physically or mentally decompensate due to the lack of treatment, and there has to be a very strong likelihood that that decompensation will continue to death or severe, long-term disability or suffering, and that the proposed treatment will help prevent this, AND that there is no available compromise that would help. So, for example, in a case where a child has cancer and a parent wants to try homeopathic or religious healing, the medical system needs to be able to demonstrate that the child's health is currently dangerously compromised and is not improving with the parents' chosen intervention. At that point, the court will order the treatment or, in extreme cases or if the parent refuses to comply with the court order. the state will take legal or even physical custody of the child until the issue is resolved.
So, having seen numerous situations like this play out in different ways, while I may vehemently disagree with the choices other parents may make for their children, I have seen that in order for any parent to be in charge of their child's care, then all parents have to be allowed that same authority unless and until there is evidence that the child is actually being harmed. This is where I'm hoping the Cass review might eventually be especially useful: if the NHS is able to complete their outcomes study that was started with the review, and if other studies looking at outcomes after social, medical, or no transition are able to get off the ground and produce results, then that might provide the evidence needed to demonstrate that transition is definitely a bad choice for any kid. Currently, though, while there is plenty of evidence of risks of medical transition, there is far less actual evidence of how these kids who are transitioned early ultimately fare as adults, as opposed to kids who are not transitioned. There are anecdotes from detransitioners, but we can't yet say how (a)typical their experience is. Until such evidence is in place, I think we need to allow parents some leeway in choosing between the legal, available options for their own children. Even if it turns our own stomachs a bit out of concern for that child's future.
I just cannot see a way to both protect our own kids from a one-size-fits-(none)all, affirm-everybody, approach, AND also to demand that other parents follow OUR approach with their kids or be deemed bad parents or Munchausen patients. The whole concept of parental rights rests on the idea, frequently repeated on this forum, that generally speaking, parents know and love their own children best, and therefore the default position must be to allow parents to use their own judgement in determining what is best for their own child.
Sorry that is so lengthy. I hope i make sense? Obviously, this is all just my own opinion, and I respect that some people may disagree.
Thank you for your answer! I fully understand your reasoning. The families of both my husband and I are primarily in education and healthcare. (My husband in healthcare.) We’ve had so many conversations regarding the complex issues you address above. The polarization makes it so difficult to dialogue which makes me appreciate the time you have given to offer your thoughtful consideration to these issues.
I have had individuals suggest I use my voice in bringing a less polarized view to our local school board. I wrote the above as a sampling for feedback. We are a “Trans-Refuge State” with medical and surgical transitions being done in our city and a very aggressive trans agenda in our community. I find stepping into that arena very intimidating.
All things considered, I feel my place for now is to remain across the table with anyone wrestling with these issues, desiring to provide a listening ear, comfort, and hope.
I see your point but what I find puzzling is that none of this existed in our days. I take it that most parents going through this are Gen X. Maybe I’m wrong but if this wasn’t around before why would it be a thing now? Clearly it only takes a little intellectual curiosity to work out that this is a new craze. And as such we have a duty to be suspicious. I was brought up in very strict conservatism and although I had a period of wokery when I was younger this didn’t last long. I always knew that men were men and women were women. I was 12 when I used to listen to Culture Club and my grandfather had a “conversation” with me about the evils of cross dressing. We don’t forget our upbringing. So what went wrong? Why has Gen X lost it? Why are Gen X parents allowing this?
Well, this is just my own conjecture combined with my observations of the people I know (which is probably not at all a representative sample):
1. Certainly the craze among kids, or the trend, wasn't around, but the concept became familiar to the general public-though rarely talked about-by the 90s, and actually medical transition has been around for nearly a century. But, there have been media profiles of an occasional trans person for several decades now (I can't recall the name, but there was that American veteran-i think-who traveled to Germany for MtF surgery and then returned and was profiled in the mainstream media. That's just one example.) So, it was rare, but out there. And it seems that the few who were willing and able to spend the money (since transition wasn't covered by insurance and in many cases wasn't available locally), and to go through the gatekeeping process that used to exist, were more sympathetic to people who had never heard of the concept before than today's TRAs. At least the old-school trans adults really tried to pass, always, and generally weren't making the kinds of demands being made today. So, when someone's child comes to them saying they're trans and feeling suicidal over it, there is a point of reference there.
2. I think there are still many parents out there, at least until very recently (since the Cass review started getting real attention from mainstream media, which just happened in the last few weeks) who really didn't know just how much of a trend this has become. Not everyone has the time, inclination, or literacy level to browse through medical research themselves. And this leads me to...
3. The politicization of "trans rights" has in many ways done a disservice to these parents and their children. Unfortunately, until very recently, the only media sources that were skeptical were right-wing outlets. There is a large segment of the country that has long viewed those outlets as conspiracy theorist, outrage machines doing the bidding of the far right and the evangelical-Catholic lobby. So, many parents probably saw that gender critical views were confined to those outlets and those politicians that lean hard right, and assumed that those views were either complete bs or just simply didn't align with their own values. In cases like this, sometimes the Identity of the messenger can obscure the validity of the message. This is especially true when...
4. Most parents these days whose children present with severe mental distress of any kind seek medical help. Either by heading to a doctor or therapist, or by looking to what we've been told are "reputable and reliable" online sources-hospital system and university Web sites, the AAP, and so on. These have generally all strongly advised parents to affirm and to strongly consider medicalization.
5. I'm struggling to word this one in a way that doesn't sound preachy or condescending, because that's not my intent at all. But, even among us dinosaurs in Gen X, not everyone had the same type of conservative upbringing that you did. I say this because you mentioned we don't forget our upbringing. That's true. But many Gen Xers were brought up with more of a "accept and be kind and tolerant" view that unfortunately is vulnerable to exploitation. And others did have a conservative upbringing but were left very hurt by certain aspects of it-outright abuse, or otherwise. I know numerous middle aged adults (adults of all ages actually) who were raised in households with similar views to those you describe in your upbringing, but who also experienced abuse from those same households. That has caused them to outright reject many aspects of that upbringing. I think we all, to some extent, vow not to make the same (what we see as) mistakes our parents did, with our own children. So, someone who was raised by an outright cruel parent who also preached about "the evils of crossdressing," say, may be trying to do better with their own child, and may therefore decide that since their parent who hurt them was against it, that they should allow it. If that makes sense...
So, again, I think there are many parents who, when confronted with a child in crisis who insists they need to transition, may be concerned about it being a trend, but also are not sure what else to do, and the advice they are given by sources they trust is to affirm. After all, no one wants their child to be in pain, or to harm themselves. And if the child maintains that they are in severe distress, and threatens to kill theirself, and is self-harming, parents feel under pressure to do something to help. They may not feel they have time to really do intense research into the subject, and may not see a need to look further when all the medical authorities in the US are telling them that the child is right, and affirmation is evidence based and safe and effective.
Again, I have no doubt that there are parents who have more selfish motives for affirming. But I have seen that it is possible for a loving, concerned parent to end up on an affirmation-based path. I hope I've somewhere helped explain how?
Natalia, I think some parents are celebrating this, but many, like the ones on PITT, know the dangers of affirmation. It's very difficult when medical professionals won't put a stop to this Mengele-type experiment. In the U.S, there's a cross-dresser appointed as the head of HHS, advocating for all these harms against children and youth. It's beyond absurd.
I think you're definitely correct that parents need more leadership, and responsibility, from the medical system. It's time for the US medical system to stop insisting that affirmation and transition is settled science, at the very least. As long as there is a nearly unison recommendation to affirm from the medical, mental health, and education systems, some parents will still be making decisions without all the facts.
It's also very important that the mainstream media report on the concerns about harms. It's encouraging to see that the New York Times just published a pretty balanced interview with Dr Cass, in which she was allowed to present a general overview of her findings and recommendation, and which emphasized, starting with the headline, that the US system and it's approach to this issue is rapidly becoming an outlier. It is so important that this issue not be so politically polarized; otherwise, many very loving and concerned parents who tend toward the liberal side will only see criticism of the trans movement coming from right-wing sources that many liberals view with heavy suspicion. While the political aspect has certainly helped push this dialogue into the view of most of society, I fear it's too polarized and that gender critical views, and concerns about medicalizing kids, have become associated with the political right in the minds of many casual observers. And that's a big problem, because in our nearly-evenly-divided country, that means that there are a lot of people who will have an immediate negative reaction towards any skepticism about the trans movement. And since educators, doctors, lawyers, psychologists, etc are much more likely to lean left than right, that means that a majority of those who advise parents and teach kids are going to have limited exposure to the evidence against affirmation and medicalization right from the start.
Jen, you may be right. However, no matter the political leanings of doctors and psychologists, this in no way should get in the way of real science.
In the old days societies would get rid of their leaders. The French developed an interesting instrument in the 18th century 😆
I might back the idea of making public examples of those who choose harm and deviancy against children. A special vengeance to those who have taken an oath to “do no harm” and protect the population in order to access others using that trust to harm them. Bring back the “day of guillotines” of sorts to show there will be zero tolerance and swift justice to the families who have been left to suffer b/c of their choice to put profits over people.
Yes!!!